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Thread: More Piracy Near Somalia

  1. #141
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default True...

    Quote Originally Posted by Uboat509 View Post
    This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have heard about Somalia...
    That sort of tacks onto the three questions re: Understanding the Enemy on the thread of that name. "Why are we doing this" really needs a thorough look.

    I suppose in one sense pressing the 'Somali authorities' sort of has to be done but to state it as a step that is in any way likely to provide a meaningful result is deluded.

    Far more importantly, without explanation or clarification, it can and likely will set up a false expectation in the minds of many -- who will complain loudly when it does little good and other, harsher measures need to be taken...

  2. #142
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    Default Surviving pirate wins a vacation in the Big Apple

    I couldn't find a link to an indictment (which may well be still sealed), but here is the gist of the story by AP:

    Friday, 17 April 2009 10:20 AM
    Somali pirate to face charges in New York: report
    Australian Associated Press

    A teenage pirate captured by US Navy forces during a high-seas hostage drama last week will face charges in a New York court, CBS News reported on Thursday.

    The pirate was identified as 19-year-old Abdulwali Muse, believed to be the ringleader of four Somali hijackers who attacked the US-flagged Maersk Alabama cargo ship on April 8 and took its captain hostage for five days, the television network said.

    Muse was set to face charges in New York's Southern District Court.

    The US federal court has reviewed major terror cases in the United States, among them the convictions of Ramzi Yousef, mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombings
    More on Fox:

    Captured Somali Pirate to Be Tried in New York
    Thursday, April 16, 2009
    .....
    A Department of Justice official said that timing is unknown on when the suspect will be brought to the U.S. District Court in New York, and no announcements are expected tomorrow.

    The pirate is "still in the middle of the Indian Ocean somewhere," one official told FOX News.

    An official told FOX News that documents have already been filed and are awaiting his arrival in New York.
    The Fed SDNY (SD = Southern District, which is Manhattan) is the primary US venue for Admiralty Law. So, the choice of venue is logical - and centuries old.

    Boy - are you guys tough on Hill and Bill !

  3. #143
    Council Member Uboat509's Avatar
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    Default

    Found this posted over at PS.com. The other seems to know what he's talking about, as opposed to all the various partisans on both sides.

    SFC W

  4. #144
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default I got a laugh out of this article

    LINK.

    Well of course they are. Given the fact that they're getting some arming and organizing help from a number of sources -- not least almost certainly the two nations who have sent veritable little Task Forces to 'assist' in the patrol by NATO navies and Operation Atalanta -- and who must of course land 'Liaison Officers' to coordinate with local governments...

    Yes, I'm sure they are getting more skilled and organized, a little training will do that...

  5. #145
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    Default Piracy: The Military Options ...

    linked by Ub - and which I just got around to reading - is a good article for we civilian types to read. Surprised it was floated in the Nation, which is scarcely non-partisan.

    From Ken's link,

    The foreign anti-piracy patrols were merely "scratching the surface" and the only real solution was for proper security on the lawless Somali mainland.
    I wonder what measures the admiral suggests to implement "proper security" on the mainland.

  6. #146
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Couple of points

    Been off-line most of the week and missed some of the reporting. So just a couple of points:

    1) Most of the pirates come from NE Somalia, now known as Puntland and has for several years been autonomous. Check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puntland and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7623329.stm

    2) There are still many ships and over 200 hostages held awaiting a ransom.

    3) The pirates are making more US$ than the Puntland government, although I've yet to see any comment on whether the pirates are the government or simply influential.

    4) The waters off northern Somalia are being extensively fished for tuna; one estimate is 40% of all caught tuna and many of the pirates started off as self-employed coastguards.

    5) What happens if for revenge and self-defence the pirates hold onto more hostages? This assumes they work in concert, which somehow I doubt.

    6) Somalia (proper and Puntland, not Somaliland) is a failed state and few care for the ordinary Somali: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8001183.stm. How about the 267k refugees at a camp in Kenya: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...a-1669948.html

    Just some thoughts.

    davidbfpo
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 04-19-2009 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Add BBC and other links

  7. #147
    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
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    Weren't the entire continents of North and South America and Africa "Failed States" prior to Europeans invading by the terms we use today?

    My opinion, but this is a status/metric that much abused and over-emphasized in today's politics. Fact is that as the factors of globalization continue to blur the old lines of what is or is not a "state," and what is or is not "sovereignty" we must become more flexible in our thinking as well. Just because something is different does not mean it is failed or broken to where it requires fixing.

    Our current lack of mental agility is assessing problems where perhaps no problem exists (or at least not one that requires our intervention to attempt to resolve), and it also grants new forms of legal status based "sanctuary" to new organizations that act in very state-like ways, but without the actionable status of "state" that allows classic Westphalian states to sanction or affect behavior. With a little mental agility we could free ourselves from these sanctuaries that we have created and that organizations like AQ, Hezbollah, and Somali Pirates all take full advantage of. Create a seam, be it real or virtual, and those who do not wish to be controlled by you will find and exploit it.
    Last edited by Bob's World; 04-20-2009 at 12:23 AM.
    Robert C. Jones
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    "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)

  8. #148
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default Pirate mother's Obama mercy plea

    Jeez, underage pirates being incarcerated

    Adar Abdurahman Hassan told the BBC her son, Abde Wale Abdul Kadhir Muse, was innocent and just 16 years old.

    He was held over the seizure off Somalia of Richard Phillips, captain of the Maersk Alabama cargo ship.

    While her son was allegedly negotiating on a US warship, naval snipers shot dead three pirates holding the captain.

    The mother of the teenager, who is facing trial in New York, said she wanted to be present in court if the case goes ahead.
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  9. #149
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Filipino sailors aspect

    From the BBC a report on the release after five months of 23 Filipino sailors and note 100 of the 300 hostages held are Filipinos:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8009580.stm

    davidbfpo

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    Default Pirate Muse to be tried as an adult ...

    The old law books were dusted off in the first round of US vs Muse.

    Somali pirate to be tried as adult in New York
    A Somali teenager was charged as an adult in a New York court on Tuesday in what is believed to be the first piracy case in America in more than a century.
    By Tom Leonard in New York
    Last Updated: 11:20PM BST 21 Apr 2009

    Abdiwali Abdiqadir Muse, who is thought to be 18, is also facing hostage-taking charges over the seizure of the captain of an American cargo ship earlier this month. He faces a mandatory life sentence if convicted of piracy. ...
    ....
    His parents have appealed to President Barack Obama for his release, saying that he comes from a penniless family and was coaxed into piracy by "gangsters" promising him money.

    Adar Abdirahman Hassan, his mother, said she cried when she saw a picture of him arriving in New York in chains.

    "The last time I saw him he was in his school uniform," she said. "He was brainwashed. People who are older than him outwitted him, people who are older than him duped him."

    She said her son was "wise beyond his years" and got lost in books as a child rather than misbehaving.
    And some more background from Somalia:

    Mystery surrounds Somali pirate's personal life
    By MOHAMED OLAD HASSAN and MALKHADIR M. MUHUMED Mohamed Olad Hassan And Malkhadir M. Muhumed – Tue Apr 21, 5:46 pm ET

    MOGADISHU, Somalia – At home in central Somalia, Abdiwali Abdiqadir Muse studied English, frequented a dusty, outdoor cinema after school where he watched Bollywood films dubbed into his native Somali and, his mother says, "was wise beyond his years."
    ....
    Karen Greenberg, executive director of the Center on Law and Security at New York University's Law School, said that the case could bring the U.S. under international criticism.

    "If he is a juvenile and he is tried as an adult and given life imprisonment, it will not help the reputation we are trying hard to reform," she said. "International law is more lenient when it comes to juveniles and we already take criticism."
    Another invocation of the "my poor child; the devil made him do it" defense - and invocation of international law in a case brought under a domestic (US) statute or statutes. I find this annoying - must be in an old and cranky mood.

  11. #151
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Welcome to

    Curmudgeonville. Have a Margarita -- or I have Bourbon, Scotch, Gin or Cognac if you prefer...

    Lemme be sure I understand this. "who is thought to be 18" ... "The last time I saw him he was in his school uniform." ... "wise beyond his years." Yeah, I got it. Been there, met him. Dozens if not hundreds of him...

    Then this:
    ...Karen Greenberg, executive director of the Center on Law and Security at New York University's Law School, said that the case could bring the U.S. under international criticism.

    "If he is a juvenile and he is tried as an adult and given life imprisonment, it will not help the reputation we are trying hard to reform," she said. "International law is more lenient when it comes to juveniles and we already take criticism."
    What reputation? Who is "we?" "If'...

    The US is gong to be criticized no matter what it does. Piffle. She's been at it for years and she continues to learn more about less. I need a drink...

  12. #152
    Council Member Wildcat's Avatar
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    The Seven Ways to Stop Piracy
    And why none of them will work as well as we might hope.

    By Ken Menkhaus
    Posted April 2009

    Now that the rush of excitement has subsided from the made-for-TV drama of the rescue of Captain Phillips, we are left with the more sobering long-term question of what to do about Somali piracy. Whether piracy constitutes a serious national security threat is a subject of debate. But there is no question that piracy off the Somali coast is now an important symbolic political issue for both the Obama administration and its critics. The Obama administration does not want conservative opponents to portray it as weak on defense or unwilling to use force to protect American interests, and so cannot afford to embrace passive policies on piracy. Yet the piracy issue is replete with traps, a seemingly simple problem with seemingly simple solutions, all of which could easily backfire and make things worse.

    Indeed, some of the strategies that have the greatest appeal for the American public and punditry are also the most dangerous. And certainly, none of them offers a quick fix.

    Let’s look at the standard menu of options being discussed in Washington.....
    To give a bit of background, Dr. Menkhaus is one of my former professors at Davidson. He is one of the world's foremost experts on the HOA, lived in Somalia for a few years in the late 80s teaching English and working on rural development, then was an adviser to UNOSOM in the 1990s, was there during the Battle of Mogadishu (Black Hawk Down), and since then has been active in political and military affairs in the Horn. He has testified before Congress several times on issues regarding Africa and the Middle East, and has been particularly busy recently traveling back and forth between the US, Europe, and the Horn to do advising. It was during my final semester in the spring of 2007, when I was taking two of his classes, that Somalian insurgent attacks against the occupying Ethiopian forces skyrocketed, and he actually had to cancel classes for an entire week because he had been asked by the Pentagon to fly out to the middle of the Pacific to give a briefing to a Marine Expeditionary Unit that was on its way there. The best compliment I ever got from him was after I had given an oral presentation on my research at the end of the semester, and he told me I had a bright future ahead of me as a military planner. Given what I know of planning processes in the upper echelons and the concept of "death by PowerPoint," I'm not even sure whether that's a compliment or not.
    Last edited by Jedburgh; 04-24-2009 at 03:34 AM.
    When I die, I want my last words to have been "Hold my beer and watch this."

  13. #153
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    Chatham House, Apr 09: Pirates and How to Deal With Them
    This briefing note draws on a meeting of a roundtable of experts held at Chatham House on 26 February 2009 by the Africa Programme and the International Law Discussion Group. It brought together lawyers and practitioners from the military, industry and diplomatic services to clarify some of the legal concerns around combating piracy off the Somali coast. The paper draws on presentations by Agustin Blanco-Bazan of the International Maritime Organisation (IMO), Commodore Neil Brown of the Royal Navy and Dr Douglas Guilfoyle from University College London, and on the discussion that followed......

  14. #154
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    If you have the influence and juice it doesn't matter if you are the government.

  15. #155
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    Default The Italians, of all people, who would have thought...

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517955,00.html

    "Italian Cruise Ship Fires on Somali Pirates

    ROME — An Italian cruise ship with 1,500 people on board fended off a pirate attack far off the coast of Somalia when its Israeli private security forces exchanged fire with the bandits and drove them away, the commander said Sunday."

    - Napolean's famous whiff of grapeshot, eh?

  16. #156
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Grapeshot replaced by firehoses?

    Goesh,

    Other reports state the Israeli guards aboard only fired pistols in the air and used firehoses - as the Somalis tried to get a ladder fixed on the cruise ship. Hardly a "whiff of grapeshot".

    Alas the Italian sailor was not there (as per link: http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/...63020&tc=yahoo).

    davidbfpo
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 04-27-2009 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Add link

  17. #157
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    CRS, 21 Apr 09: Piracy off the Horn of Africa
    Contents

    Recent Developments

    Background
    Piracy off the Horn of Africa: Profile
    • The Pirates

    • Motives

    • Tactics and Demands

    Piracy off the Horn of Africa: Impact
    • Threats to Commercial Shipping and Global Trade

    • Threats to Humanitarian Aid Deliveries

    • Potential Financing of Regional Conflict and Terrorism Concerns


    U.S. and International Policy Responses
    U.S. Policy
    United Nations Security Council
    Contact Group on Piracy off the Coast of Somalia
    Combined Task Force 151 and Other Naval Forces
    NATO: Operation Allied Provider and Operation Allied Protector
    European Union: Operation ATALANTA
    International Maritime Organization and the Djibouti Code of Conduct
    United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime: “Shipriders” and Capacity Building
    Private Sector and Shipping Industry Responses

    Issues for Congress and Policy Options
    Oversight of U.S. Military Forces and U.S. Foreign Assistance
    Piracy, Law Enforcement, and International Cooperation
    Options for Improving the Immediate Security of Merchant Ships
    • Risk Reduction and Best Practices

    • Arming Merchant Ships

    • Convoys

    • Maritime War Risk Insurance

    Toward a Long-Term Solution: "Piracy is a Problem that Starts Ashore"

  18. #158
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    Other reports state the Israeli guards aboard only fired pistols in the air and used firehoses - as the Somalis tried to get a ladder fixed on the cruise ship.
    davidbfpo

    That sounds like the waterboarding pirate defense

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    LOL Slap - it's just hard to imagine IDF types not getting a bit frisky and putting a couple of them in the sea for the sharks to eat. I recall reading a couple of years ago about a merchant vessel that did use fire hoses to repel pirates. What a shameful day for pirates to be driven off by fire hoses, Johhny Depp wouldn't be proud of them, sort of takes away some of the Hollywood glory accorded them.

  20. #160
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Russians seize pirates

    One of the lower profile patrolling nations, based on what I've seen and now they have struck: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...i-pirates.html

    Somehow I doubt they will make it to a Russian court.

    davidbfpo

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