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  1. #1
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default True.

    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    I'll just say it. There currently is NO POSSIBLE WAY to secure the power grid completely. Dr. Wiess just testified to congress on this issue on last Tuesday.
    Been known for a while so Plan b has to be used...

  2. #2
    Council Member Ron Humphrey's Avatar
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    Post I'm kinda partial to plan Z

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    Been known for a while so Plan b has to be used...
    Make sure that whatever pain they bring hurts them too and preferably can be clearly seen as hurting a whole lot worse than us
    Any man can destroy that which is around him, The rare man is he who can find beauty even in the darkest hours

    Cogitationis poenam nemo patitur

  3. #3
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Humphrey View Post
    Make sure that whatever pain they bring hurts them too and preferably can be clearly seen as hurting a whole lot worse than us
    Currently that is the primary protection. Mutually assured destruction is inherently part of the equation when dealing with nation-state on nation-state. When terrorism enters the picture that becomes a bit of thorny issue.
    Sam Liles
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  4. #4
    Council Member Ron Humphrey's Avatar
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    Question Something I always was amazed by

    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    Currently that is the primary protection. Mutually assured destruction is inherently part of the equation when dealing with nation-state on nation-state. When terrorism enters the picture that becomes a bit of thorny issue.
    Was how business, local and regional law enforcement, emergency services, heck just about any given group you look at seem absolutely chaotic under "normal" working conditions but let an emergency take place and all the sudden they can turn into a well oiled machine with all the directional paths well defined and each piece working solidly toward a task.

    Maybe thats because they spend a lot more time on working out the how to's in relation how to deal with X condition should it happen then they do just working out their normal day to day relationships. Seems like the same should go for limited non-state actors response as well.

    If they know that knocking out x,y, and Z may cause panic but it also will bring down the focus that comes with that scenario (meaning in short their gonna get a lot more effective and focused attention than they would otherwise) it should help to adjust their cost benefit analysis on what they want to achieve.

    Example: If you take out a small portion of the grid there would be a lot more whining and disgruntlement among the populous then if you take down a big chunk of it. IF the big chunk was taken down there's gonna be a lot more screams to kill the #$@# who did it then there would be whining over why theres no power.

    Rambling and almost nonsensical I know but not sure how to put it differently.

    ??
    Any man can destroy that which is around him, The rare man is he who can find beauty even in the darkest hours

    Cogitationis poenam nemo patitur

  5. #5
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Last Tuesday this hearing was very interesting. For a discussion on the power system you can't do much better than Dr. Weiss. His written testimony is pretty good. I disagree with several things he says but that is likely of little substance.

    A key point for those thinking about how much this cyber stuff is BS and nerds should stay in the data center.

    You, I, we, don't set the rules. In a version of Clausewitz we don't want to think about a total defensive plan is a losing strategy. We have an active cyber insurgency that is costing billions of dollars and we're fighting it with a high intensity military set to defense only. Whiz bang NSA/DOD types with cute tools are like a long range reconnaissance unit far behind enemy lines. They talk about what is going on, but they won't win the war all alone.

    The utility infrastructure of the modern world created to centralize management, increase profitability, and decrease man-power requirements are exactly why the problem can't be fixed. The information technology incentives have resulted in the type of linkages that create exploitable systems and capacity to cascading outages. In my opinion cyber warfare is a limited or small war paradigm. Cyber war is a low intensity conflict but there is nothing to say it can't have kinetic real world effects. In fact we know that it has been used to kill people.

    Welcome to my world.
    Sam Liles
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    All opinions are mine and may or may not reflect those of my employer depending on the chance it might affect funding, politics, or the setting of the sun. As such these are my opinions you can get your own.

  6. #6
    Council Member Surferbeetle's Avatar
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    From today's BBC website by John Moylan Smart meter plans to be outlined

    The government is to unveil plans for every home in the UK to be equipped with smart meters by the end of 2020.

    Smart meters allow suppliers to remotely record customers' gas and electricity use, and let consumers see how much energy they are using.

    Some 26 million electricity and 22 million gas meters will need to be fitted at a cost of £7bn.

    Smart meters end the need to dispatch meter readers, meaning huge savings for energy firms who hope bills will fall.

    It is also hoped that smart meters will mean an end to estimated bills and call centre staff who deal with related complaints.
    Sapere Aude

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    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
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    As someone who has been doing Dave Ramsey's budget plan for the last year or so, I can tell you that the ability to track consumption almost always results in more limited and efficient consumption.

    Whether it be money, or calories, or energy.

    Anything that increases the users ability to track consumption is a good thing, imo.

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