All matters MRAP JLTV (merged thread)

[Uboat509]

Claims Victory is a bit strong. These things certainly have a place but they are no where near the be-all and end-all. More on it here.

The Army may order more of the vehicles, but it doesn't intend for them to replace its 16,000 armored Humvees in Iraq, Brig. Gen. Charles Anderson said. The new vehicles are too heavy and hard to maneuver in urban areas such as Baghdad, said Anderson, the Army's director of force development.

"The Humvee is still a viable option in the theater," he said. The Army is committed to add-on armor kits for the Humvees, which cost almost $29,000 apiece. Each of the new vehicles costs at least $700,000, according to Army budget documents.

SFC W

[davidbfpo]

The V-shpaed vehicle design has been around since the 1970's, first in Rhodesia and then developed in South Africa. The only open source book I know is Peter Stiff's 'Taming the landmine', which is now somewhat dated and is easy to find on Google.

Why the later South Africa versions have not been purchased or licensed by the coalition eludes me.

Yes, they were originally designed for 'bush warfare' where land lines were the main threat, not IEDs in urban areas. Are the principles of design and threat not the same?

davidbfpo

[marct]

Hi David,

Why the later South Africa versions have not been purchased or licensed by the coalition eludes me.

Yes, they were originally designed for 'bush warfare' where land lines were the main threat, not IEDs in urban areas. Are the principles of design and threat not the same?

As far as the threat envelope is concerned, it appears to be quite similar: mines/IEDs, RPGs, occasional anti-armour, etc. The designs should work, as would some of the Israeli designs.

The only problem with the South African versions is that they suffer from a fatal flaw: "Not designed here in the good ol' USA" . Which means that some congressman doesn't get to claim they got their constituents a juicy contract to research something that has already been designed.

Marc

[J Wolfsberger]

All,

The vehicles produced by Force Protection (www.forceprotection.net) are the South African designs, produced under license. They are selling to the U.S.

However, the deep vee design can't be applied retroactively. The writer who stated that "A relatively minor redesign of military Humvees could save the lives of thousands of US soldiers in Iraq" is completely wrong. Unless by minor redesign he means: raise radiator cap, insert new vehicle, replace radiator cap.

[J Wolfsberger]

With regard to MRAP, there are a bunch of companies producing several different vehicle. Defense Daily is a good source for finding out who has received contracts so far. This program looks to become a large multi source procurement for interim vehicles until the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV) develops a new one from scratch.

[TROUFION]

Ok I think it is great to get these vehicles to the troops that need them but, claiming victory because you can break the red-tape barrier to procurment, 'eh not too impressive. The US built victory ships in one week, some of these remained in service around the globe more than 30 years later. Bombers, tanks, trucks flowed off assembly lines at the 'rapid rate'. No, while it is good to be able to buy what is needed it is 2007 the war started in 2003, the need for the vehicles was identified in late 2004. This is no victory, though it is a good thing.

[tequila]

Seems like it's working thusfar - at least until the Iraqis develop something else. EFPs?

In more than 300 attacks since last year, no Marines have died while riding in new fortified armored vehicles the Pentagon hopes to rush to Iraq in greater numbers this year, a top Marine commander in Anbar province said.
Brig. Gen. John Allen, deputy commander of coalition forces in Anbar province, said the Marines have tracked attacks on the vehicles since January 2006. The vehicles' raised, V-shaped hulls deflect the force of blasts from homemade bombs buried in roadways.

There's been an average of less than one injured Marine per attack on the vehicles, Allen said. There have been 1,100 attacks on coalition vehicles during the period in Anbar province, the heart of the Sunni Muslim insurgency.

Attacks on other vehicles caused more than two casualties per attack, including deaths, Allen said.

[Mark O'Neill]

The V-shpaed vehicle design has been around since the 1970's, first in Rhodesia and then developed in South Africa. The only open source book I know is Peter Stiff's 'Taming the landmine', which is now somewhat dated and is easy to find on Google.

Why the later South Africa versions have not been purchased or licensed by the coalition eludes me.

Yes, they were originally designed for 'bush warfare' where land lines were the main threat, not IEDs in urban areas. Are the principles of design and threat not the same?

davidbfpo

Australia has had the Bushmaster Infantry Mobility Vehicle (IMV) for a few years now. It is a locally made 'next generation' mine resistant vehicle for an Infantry Section. It is made by Thales, who bought ADI (Australian Defence Industries) a few years back. It is manufactured in Bendigo, Victoria. Here is the company's website:

http://www.adi-limited.com/site.asp?page=154

It is an Aussie design , inspired by the Buffel and Kaspir. It can withstand a pretty decent blast directly under the hull, I will not specify it here as I am not sure that the quantity of blast it can resist is unclassified.

We are using them in Iraq and Afghanistan to good effect, I understand that the U.S.A. is buying a largish - quantity for a trial.

[FascistLibertarian]

I am pretty sure the Canadians put something on the front of their tanks similar to this in either operation tractable or totalize (i think it was the latter) in order to blow up mines.

V shaped makes so much more sense.
But then we didnt always put armour on an angle to make it thicker in early tanks, so common sense doesnt always work.....

[Jedburgh]

...It is an Aussie design , inspired by the Buffel and Kaspir. It can withstand a pretty decent blast directly under the hull, I will not specify it here as I am not sure that the quantity of blast it can resist is unclassified...

It may have been classified in the past, but limited specifics are available on the open 'net. The ability of the hull to withstand blast is given as equivalent to two TM-57 AT mines, or 19kg (not quite 42lb) of TNT.

[Mark O'Neill]

It may have been classified in the past, but limited specifics are available on the open 'net. The ability of the hull to withstand blast is given as equivalent to two TM-57 AT mines, or 19kg (not quite 42lb) of TNT.

That is a different figure to the one I am familiar with. Maybe some aspects regarding some tech specs are still withheld, for obvious reasons...