All matters MRAP JLTV (merged thread)

[TROUFION]

Ok I think it is great to get these vehicles to the troops that need them but, claiming victory because you can break the red-tape barrier to procurment, 'eh not too impressive. The US built victory ships in one week, some of these remained in service around the globe more than 30 years later. Bombers, tanks, trucks flowed off assembly lines at the 'rapid rate'. No, while it is good to be able to buy what is needed it is 2007 the war started in 2003, the need for the vehicles was identified in late 2004. This is no victory, though it is a good thing.

[tequila]

Seems like it's working thusfar - at least until the Iraqis develop something else. EFPs?

In more than 300 attacks since last year, no Marines have died while riding in new fortified armored vehicles the Pentagon hopes to rush to Iraq in greater numbers this year, a top Marine commander in Anbar province said.
Brig. Gen. John Allen, deputy commander of coalition forces in Anbar province, said the Marines have tracked attacks on the vehicles since January 2006. The vehicles' raised, V-shaped hulls deflect the force of blasts from homemade bombs buried in roadways.

There's been an average of less than one injured Marine per attack on the vehicles, Allen said. There have been 1,100 attacks on coalition vehicles during the period in Anbar province, the heart of the Sunni Muslim insurgency.

Attacks on other vehicles caused more than two casualties per attack, including deaths, Allen said.

[zulucharlie]

Good evening all,
I agree with Ray Levesque #11
Not only did the Casspir save a lot of lives in the South African bush war the unique design enabled the vehicle to withstand serious damage and about 85% of the vehicles could be driven from the scene after some minor repairs, sometimes only the wheel needed changing, the most serious damage and injuries were caused from driving too fast enabling the mine to flip the vehicle onto its side. Speed and driving too close also caused the following vehicles to smash into the disabled vehicle; this fact should be the first thing drivers should be made aware of.

zc

[Ken White]

designs are great for their intended missions. The Casspir and the Buffalo and todays RG 31 are big and very formidable mine protected vehicles that give effective protection against small arms. They were made with a high center of gravity and are great vehicles for their designed purpose -- to transport troops through scrub brush that was heavily mined so the troops could get to the area of a fight and dismount.

They were high both to allow enhanced mine protection and to allow visibility over the scrub. That height is a disadvantage in urban or flat desert areas. Their size means they are entirely too big to navigate in the narrow wadis and lanes in Afghanistan and much of Iraq. Further, there are mines in both theaters but the greater danger is from lateral IEDs. They are not lateral IED proof without getting as dangerously overweight as are the up armored HMMWVs, they are not good convoy escort vehicle. Great vehicles, better than nothing but still far from ideal.

The Australian Bushmaster is a good blend and has better capability for being up-armored and Oshkosh has a license agreement with BAE Australia; unfortunately, it too is a large and high vehicle designed to rapidly transport troops to a dismount point through scrub. Both the Dutch and the Strines are using it in the 'Stan (the latter also in Iraq) so it'll be interesting to see how it fares.

Otokar in Turkey makes an armored variant of the HMMWV (as does Mowag in Switzerland, now owned by GD) which would have worked well, but as Marc said, they weren't invented here. They would have been adequate provided some tactical sense was applied in their use and they'd have used standard in the inventory parts, (as opposed to the Cougar / RG 31 and such with MB and other non-standard parts), far cheaper and thus more could've been purchased. No matter, since International now has a big contract for yet a different vehicle, we'll see what happens.

We are reacting to a hysterical and ignorant media campaign that is at least partly political. That said, we're going to do it -- but the big Armored Busses are not the answer. The infantry -- I mean real infantry, the light guys over there -- who get around on foot don't have an IED problem.

Horses for courses and all that...

[Jedburgh]

19 Jul 07 testimony before the HASC Joint Seapower and Expeditionary Forces and Air and Land Forces Subcommittees on The Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) Vehicle Program:

John Young, MRAP TF


LTG John Castellaw, USMC,Deputy Commandant for Programs and Resources

Transcripts of statements by BG Michael Brogan, USMC, Cdr Marine Corps Systems Command and LTG Stephen Speakes, USA, Deputy Chief of Staff, Army G-8, were not available.