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Thread: "Hot Pursuit" Doctrine

  1. #21
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    IIRC, he was accompanied by Mexican authorities and did not operate independently. I can't remember for sure and I have no way to check it at the moment, since I loaned the book to someone in my department.

    One of the incidents was the Colorado Canyon shootings in 1988. Several Mexican boys fired at a rafting party in the Rio Grande from the Mexican side, so there were crime scenes on both sides of the river that had to be worked.

    I can't remember the exact nature of the other incident but it seems like he went after a fugitive.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joaquin_Jackson
    "Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen." - Jeff Cooper

  2. #22
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Just as an aside "hot pursuit" doctrine is very interesting as it has wider implications when dealing with telecommunications. Between network treaties, tariffs, neutrality restrictions and national laws chasing thieves through the winding structures of the global grid and financial systems is daunting. The differing laws and social constructs become huge issues for even local constabulary forces. The interesting thing contrary to public perception is that the United States systems are often the offending locus for entities.
    Sam Liles
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  3. #23
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default The Tartan border

    One of the odd, apparently un-expected lessons of the Lockerbie bombing, in 1988, was the lack of any law on cross-border law enforcement issues between England and Scotland. I recall reading a document on what happened and what was required. No idea if anything changed. I know we were taught that a police officer from England and Wales crossed the border we had no legal powers and had to be accompanied by a Scottish officer(s).

    Vaguely recall some legislation was mooted to allow for national law enforcement. Incidentally Northern Ireland, seperated by a stretch of sea, is in the same position - no mainland police have powers there.

    davidbfpo

  4. #24
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    (emphasis added / kw)

    Respectfully,

    Ken the Kid

    Yea, I read that.

  5. #25
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    Default Mexico > US border intrusions

    -----------------------------------
    Texas Rangers

    CSI article cited in post # 7 above.

    http://bibdaily.com/pdfs/Army%20on%2...der%20OP22.pdf

    has some Texas Ranger history in chap. 2 (mid-1800's) and chap 4 (Villa era) - which led to some problems in those eras. Nothing on Texas Rangers in that article after the Villa era.

    ---------------------------------------
    For a general overview of international police cooperation, see list of Mathieu Deflem's publications at

    http://www.cas.sc.edu/socy/faculty/d....html#articles

    and more specifically, as to US, Canada and Mexico:

    International Police Cooperation in Northern America:
    A Review of Practices, Strategies, and Goals in the United States, Mexico, and Canada
    http://www.cas.sc.edu/socy/faculty/deflem/zAMINPO.htm

    The Boundaries of International Cooperation:
    Problems and Prospects of U.S.-Mexican Policing
    http://www.cas.sc.edu/socy/faculty/deflem/zintcor.htm

    -----------------------------------------------
    Hummer

    Report: Border Patrol confirms 29 incursions by Mexican officials into U.S. in 2006
    By Olga R. Rodriguez
    ASSOCIATED PRESS

    3:33 p.m. January 9, 2008

    MEXICO CITY – The U.S. Border Patrol confirmed 29 recorded incursions into the U.S. by Mexican military or other government agents in the last 12 months, according to a report made public Wednesday by a watchdog group.

    Judicial Watch, a conservative, U.S.-based public interest group, said in a news release that Mexican officials were armed in 17 of the 29 incursions during the fiscal year between October 2005 to October 2006.
    ......
    U.S. officials also have been accused of incursions into Mexico. In November 2006, U.S. Border Patrol agents chasing suspected drug traffickers on the Texas border allegedly crossed into Mexico and had a brief standoff with Mexican police officers.
    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...ncursions.html

    Mexican incursions inflame border situation
    House panel told of shootings by gunmen in Mexican military uniforms
    By Brock N. Meeks
    Chief Washington correspondent
    MSNBC
    updated 9:33 p.m. ET, Tues., Feb. 7, 2006
    ......
    An incident last month in Hudspeth County, Texas, along the border east of El Paso
    .....
    On Jan. 23, a group of Texas deputy sheriffs, acting on a tip, intercepted a group of drug smugglers
    .....
    When confronted by the deputies, the drug smugglers raced back across the border while men in Mexican military uniforms, driving a Humvee, “took up a defensive position” that Hudspeth County Sheriff Arvin West described as a "military maneuver."
    .....
    Nothing unusual

    Mexican soldiers caught inside U.S. boundaries “isn’t a new phenomenon,” said David Aguilar, chief of the U.S. Border Patrol. Although the Mexican military has an “internal policy” that states they won’t operate within about two miles of the U.S., that policy is routinely violated or simply ignored, he said. “We often spot them” near or inside U.S. borders, Aguilar said.

    And on several occasions the U.S. has chased, apprehended and even detained members of the Mexican military, Aguilar said during his testimony. However, the U.S. has no concrete evidence that the Mexican military is in any way involved in drug smuggling, Aguilar was quick to point out.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11226144

    Looks like the Hummer is more likely to be heading north to protect the Toyota heading south to the RG.

    (photo caption from above url)
    Unidentified men unload bundles of drugs from a SUV that became stuck in the Rio Grande at Neely's Crossing, east of El Paso. Men in Mexican military uniforms and armed with automatic weapons provided cover for the group, according to Hudspeth County Sheriff deputies that confronted the group.

  6. #26
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    Default Hummer

    Are there three folks standing around the HV ?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #27
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Default

    Ah Ha I new the shots came from the Grassy Knoll

  8. #28
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    Default Ya got that

    right - and the photo quality is on the same par.

    Are you old enough to remember that motorcade ?

    I was a punk kid in college, sitting in the Dean of Students office, when someone ran by yelling "the President's been shot". The thought went through my head - "who the hell would want to shoot Van Pelt (the president of MTU)". Which proves that initial impressions are often wrong.

  9. #29
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    right - and the photo quality is on the same par.

    Are you old enough to remember that motorcade ?

    I was a punk kid in college, sitting in the Dean of Students office, when someone ran by yelling "the President's been shot". The thought went through my head - "who the hell would want to shoot Van Pelt (the president of MTU)". Which proves that initial impressions are often wrong.

    The truth comes out you are older than me I was in the 4rd grade home sick from school and will never forget it. Since then I have followed all the investigations and re-investigations about who did what.

  10. #30
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    Default Yup, got me

    on that one. From my perspective (66 in August), you are still in the little kid range - but fast approaching ancienthood.

    But, not in KW's league, since I was 8 when I was reading about his adventures (actually USMC's) at Inchon and the frozen North in the Saturday Evening Post.

  11. #31
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default That's not as bad as my wife's comment at

    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    ...But, not in KW's league, since I was 8 when I was reading about his adventures (actually USMC's) at Inchon and the frozen North in the Saturday Evening Post.
    a party in the late 70s that she recalled being in the Second grade (8? Probably...) and watching as the local National Guard unit went off to fight in Korea.

    But it's close...

    Okay, slap, you're home free.

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