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  1. #1
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Different folks...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
    ...In the broader context, our previous IO campaign reflected a self-absorbed reaction to radical Islamist. After the shock of 9/11, we immediately asked, "why do they hate us?" In some weird, collective form of compartmentalized psychosis, a temporary disassociation with reality, we questioned our own identity, and we felt the need to justify democracy, capitalism, and liberalism.
    What's this "we" stuff? I truly do not know -- and have never heard -- anyone outside of the media and the vales of academe ask that question, not once. Neither of those institutions shapes America nearly as much as they'd like -- or like to think they do. Most Americans, in the immortal words of Christie Blatchford, "...don't give a rat's ass about what the rest of the world thinks about them."
    We acted rash, and we never considered that the attacks had nothing to do with us. Despite the rhetoric of AQ, we were never the problem.
    Unsure of your meaning here. In one sense, I agree but I think the so-called AQ effect included us though not because they hate us. Nor, IMO, did we act rashly; we had contended with probes and minor attacks, worldwide, from the ME through four Presidents from both parties over 22 years. I see nothing rash, merely a long overdue if not best planned (and whose fault is that?) response.
    The GWOT further schismed the US populace into partisan factions- everyone was angry; everyone blamed Bush...
    Further being a relative term; the schism occurred in the late 60s and had just been getting progressively more vocal. As much or more of that due to the increased ability to broadly communicate (and a lessening of social constraint on invective) as to a deepening rift. Had the GWOT (an admittedly dumb term in any event) been precipitated by Al Gore, the flow of criticism would have been reversed, it would not have been stilled.
    ...Thankfully, we are beginning to stop blaiming ourselves for the world's ills.
    Aging will do that Fear not, happens to all of us. Liberating feeling, too.
    I used to concur with GEN Powell's pottery barn analogy, but the ME was broken long ago.
    That was never a good metaphor or plan -- and the ME is not broken, it works; it's just very, very different.
    ...with the selfishness and pragmatism of the ME. We simply have to acknowledge that their failures are not our responsibility nor causation.
    I'd also suggest that to look upon that or those things as failure(s) is possibly not conducive to a sensible and successful approach to operating in the ME. Again, I think it's not wrong, just very different. Judge the ME on western standards and the probability of failure in getting anything done there declines precipitously.
    ...hope that a mass tactical jump lies shortly in my future...
    Now that do sound like more fun...

  2. #2
    Council Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Default Same difference

    Ken- we're actually on the same page. Instead of simply getting out of the military or whatever, i'm just throwing out categorical statements for consideration...

    IMO, clouded by shades of deployments, the public is misinformed but partisoned nonetheless...As I redeploy time and again, I'm upset from the internal focus of IPODs and blackberries to no regard.

    I'm simply trying to make sense of it all.

    I suppose that's therapy in a way....I'm just trying to find solutions and understanding...

    Inadvertantly, this has become my life's work.

    As my boy from dartmouth put it today, "this country is in need and i think that i can serve." In the end, that's all we can do.



    v/r

    Mike
    Last edited by MikeF; 08-09-2008 at 10:15 PM.

  3. #3
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Thumbs up I think so

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
    Ken- we're actually on the same page.
    and I did this too:
    Instead of simply getting out of the military or whatever, i'm just throwing out categorical statements for consideration...
    Still had to end up sorting out most of my own answers...
    IMO, clouded by shades of deployments, the public is misinformed but partisoned nonetheless...As I redeploy time and again, I'm upset from the internal focus of IPODs and blackberries to no regard.
    Hear that, know the feeling. This country hasn't been to war since 1945. Neither has the Pentagon. Elements of all the Armed Forces have a bunch of times in the last 63 years. On balance, I think that's a good thing -- but I know full well it can be annoying as all get out...
    I'm simply trying to make sense of it all.
    Gimme a holler if you do -- I'm still trying...
    As my boy from dartmouth put it today, "this country is in need and i think that i can serve." In the end, that's all we can do.
    Roger that. 45 years and no regrets and my worst (and fortunately brief) job was at the ROTC Det at a University in Florida.

    It is indeed all we can do. The good news is that more people really and sincerely appreciate that than one normally realizes...

    Keep on pushing!

  4. #4
    Council Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Default Cheers...

    I am of old and young, of the foolish as much as the wise,
    Regardless of others, ever regardful of others,
    Maternal as well as paternal, a child as well as a man,
    Stuffed with the stuff that is coarse, and stuffed with the stuff that is fine. . .
    These are the thoughts of all men in all ages and lands, they are not original with me,
    If they are not yours as much mine they are nothing or next to nothing,
    If they do not enclose everything they are next to nothing. . .
    -Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass


    The funny thing is that he wrote his poems to pick up women...In another life, he would've been a paratrooper....

    As always Ken, I appreciate the insight....

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