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  1. #1
    Council Member Xenophon's Avatar
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    Default Mctag

    Does anyone know exactly how this organization is going to work? Will newly formed TTs train or undergo instruction in Virginia? Will ATG (Advisor Training Group) in 29 Palms be moved/combined with MCTAG?

    If so, I'm definitely going to start looking at this as a B billet. I'm loving the advising job so far, and hope to get another TT deployment before moving to a B billet. (IF I can convince the wife)

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    Council Member Boot's Avatar
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    Default I have orders there...

    PM me for a direct e-mail contact.
    Last edited by Jedburgh; 01-22-2008 at 03:32 AM.

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    Default Mctag

    I am currently on a MTT over in Iraq. I to do love the advisor mission and hoping greatly to get orders with MCTAG. Also having to work to convince my wife.

    From my understanding, I believe MCTAG is another way for the Marine Corps to take on the FID mission. Considering the Marine Corps has no control over MSOAG. It gives us, as advisors to have a parent command instead of pulling Marines from their units. The location of MCTAG in Va I believe will be a great location for MCTAG. Away from big mother Marine Corps. Giving the teams more independent training.

    I believe this will be a success for the Marine Corps. If the right people fill the billets. People who understand "the basics" , who are mature, and can adapt quickly.

    s/f
    Buzzsaw

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    Council Member Boot's Avatar
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    Default Yes...

    Feel free to email me.


    Boot

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    Hi. I'm stationed at MCTAG. Been here since last December 07. If anyone got questions, I might be able to answer them. I was the first enlisted person here, and the 3rd person here alltogether.

    a little idea of what we do...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA3yIAhgeRY
    Last edited by Jedburgh; 10-07-2008 at 01:57 AM.

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    I am a reserve corpsman getting recalled with a MTT. I am to report MCTAG. Anybody know what kind of training I will be doing? Do we go to 29 and take the MRX course at ATG?

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    you will not go to any other base than ft story, ft hill, camp lejeune.

    another video of what we do (and the training the MTTs go thru):

    http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1715743027

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    Default The Marine Corps and the FID Mission?

    I would like to hear eveyones thoughts on how they feel about the Marine Corps pursuing the FID/Advisor mission?

    Please...send your thoughts.


    s/f
    Buzzsaw
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 08-09-2008 at 08:30 PM.

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    I think that you are going to see a lot of motion on this issue in the upcoming months. The idea of turning the USMC into the nation's expeditionary force while the Army assumes the role of "reserve of last resort" is not new.

    The upcoming debate will consist of two major components -- 1. the Army trying to decide who it is (watch personnel changes and statements at the top) and 2. USMC deciding how much it can/should handle and what additional resources it will need to be successful.

    Think this forum is a ringside seat.

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    Council Member max161's Avatar
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    Default The FID Mission and all the Services

    Before we get into the debate I would like to provide a perspective:

    1) By law (Title 10) FID is a SOF core mission.
    2) However, by Joint doctrine all services are responsible for providing forces trained and ready to conduct and support FID.

    There is some inter-service parochialism out there and some fear the Marines are horning on a traditional SOF mission. A few points about that.

    The Army and the Marines and to a lesser extent (but no less important) the Navy and the Air Force have a long history of conducting operations that fall into the FID category (especially when we understand FID doctrine - all the services have contributed extensively to Indirect FID with their security assistance programs, their military to military partnerships, mobile training teams, combined training exericses (e.g., REFORGER, Cobra Gold, Bright Star, Team Spirit, Balikatan, Cabanas, Foal Eagle, just to name a few) and International Military Education and Training (IMET) which nearly all the service schools contribute to). SOF participates in those areas but has been employed to a greater extent in Direct FID and Combat FID (though again, the Army and the Marines are now heavily engaged in Combat FID in Iraq and Afghanistan as is SOF) while SOF continues to contribute to Direct FID around the world in Africa (JTF HOA and OEF-Trans-Sahal), Central and South America (e.g., Colombia and OEF - CCA) and Asia (e.g., OEF-P in The Philippines).

    While some will say that the new Marine Forces Special Operations Command (MARFORSOC) will take away missions from Special Forces I say that is bunk. First, there is going to be enough work for everyone for a long time to come. While SOF in general and Special Forces in particular will be able to handle most of the Direct FID operations outside of OIF and OEF Afghanistan all the services will need to contribute to Indirect FID as they always have and hopefully (if we ever see authorities change) they will to an even greater extent. But when we compare MARFORSOC to USASOC we should remember that even when they are fully operational capable they will only be 1% the size of USASOC and less than 2% the size of Special Forces. They are not going to replace Special Forces but they will be able to add to our nation's Special Operations capabilities.

    In addition, I am glad to see that this discussion is about FID. I have heard some of the new COIN experts and Security Forces Assistance aficionados say that FID is an outdated doctrine and no longer relevant since it is a Cold War paradigm. To which I say again that is bunk. SFA, COIN, Train, Advise and Assist are all natural subsets of FID. And by the way, FID doctrine also clearly states that it is more than a military approach, it has to be interagency. The problem goes back to my first point above - by law SOF is a core mission and because of that most people have blown off reading FID doctrine and we have all these COIN entrepreneurs out there developing new terminology and organizations and in my (hopefully) humble opinion we are wasting a lot of intellectual time and energy trying to create new things rather than applying what has already been proven and perhaps just updating and tweaking the good existing doctrine (some have argued that since FID doctrine does not account for 1206 and 1207 funding authorities it is no longer relevant and that Security Force Assistance must replace it again, I say that is bunk, just add 1206 and 1207 funding authority definitions (or whatever the new term is in the FY 08 legislation) to the existing FID doctrine and get on with business). Again, just because FID is a SOF core mission does negate the fact that all services have a role in FID and I am happy to see the Marine Corps taking it on responsibly.
    David S. Maxwell
    "Irregular warfare is far more intellectual than a bayonet charge." T.E. Lawrence

  11. #11
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default I broadly agree with what you say. However...

    Quote Originally Posted by max161 View Post
    Before we get into the debate I would like to provide a perspective:

    1) By law (Title 10) FID is a SOF core mission.
    that is true but, specifically:

    ""[10 USC A.I.167.](j) Special Operations Activities.--For purposes of this section,
    special operations activities include each of the following insofar as
    it relates to special operations:
    (emphasis added / kw)
    (1) Direct action.
    (2) Strategic reconnaissance.
    (3) Unconventional warfare.
    (4) Foreign internal defense.
    (5) Civil affairs.
    (6) Psychological operations.
    (7) Counterterrorism.
    (8) Humanitarian assistance.
    (9) Theater search and rescue.
    (10) Such other activities as may be specified by the President
    or the Secretary of Defense.""


    That is not to be a nit picker but to make the point that FID, as you say is a total government activity; that SOCOM has FID as a core activity insofar as it pertains to Special Operations -- but that all the services have a co-equal to SOCOM FID responsibility. The services also have responsibilities in all the above listed mission areas, just not to extent or in the way that SOCOM does.
    2) However, by Joint doctrine all services are responsible for providing forces trained and ready to conduct and support FID.
    True, even though SOCOM may have nominal proponency for it. This is also true:
    The Army and the Marines and to a lesser extent (but no less important) the Navy and the Air Force have a long history of conducting operations that fall into the FID category (especially when we understand FID doctrine - all the services have contributed extensively to Indirect FID with their security assistance programs, their military to military partnerships, mobile training teams, combined training exericses (e.g., REFORGER, Cobra Gold, Bright Star, Team Spirit, Balikatan, Cabanas, Foal Eagle, just to name a few) and International Military Education and Training (IMET) which nearly all the service schools contribute to). SOF participates in those areas but has been employed to a greater extent in Direct FID and Combat FID (though again, the Army and the Marines are now heavily engaged in Combat FID in Iraq and Afghanistan as is SOF) while SOF continues to contribute to Direct FID around the world in Africa (JTF HOA and OEF-Trans-Sahal), Central and South America (e.g., Colombia and OEF - CCA) and Asia (e.g., OEF-P in The Philippines).
    Except I would add that in both Afghanistan and Iraq, the services are all engaged in Direct FID as well. As a parallel, I believe you stated not long ago that SOCOM did not control all / most SOF in the CentCom AOR, that CentCom did. we're all in this together. I hope...
    ... First, there is going to be enough work for everyone for a long time to come. While SOF in general and Special Forces in particular will be able to handle most of the Direct FID operations outside of OIF and OEF Afghanistan all the services will need to contribute to Indirect FID as they always have and hopefully (if we ever see authorities change) they will to an even greater extent. (emphasis added / kw * )
    I suspect they will...
    ...SFA, COIN, Train, Advise and Assist are all natural subsets of FID. And by the way, FID doctrine also clearly states that it is more than a military approach, it has to be interagency. The problem goes back to my first point above - by law SOF (FID ?) is a (SOF ?) core mission and because of that most people have blown off reading FID doctrine...
    That and a strong desire, as it's a dirty job, to avoid it if at all possible. We've done that once (for several pertinent reasons), to repeat that error would be unwise IMO.
    ...and we have all these COIN entrepreneurs out there developing new terminology and organizations and in my (hopefully) humble opinion we are wasting a lot of intellectual time and energy trying to create new things rather than applying what has already been proven and perhaps just updating and tweaking the good existing doctrine (some have argued that since FID doctrine does not account for 1206 and 1207 funding authorities it is no longer relevant and that Security Force Assistance must replace it – again, I say that is bunk, just add 1206 and 1207 funding authority definitions (or whatever the new term is in the FY 08 legislation) to the existing FID doctrine and get on with business). Again, just because FID is a SOF core mission does negate the fact that all services have a role in FID and I am happy to see the Marine Corps taking it on responsibly.
    Totally agree. FID is one of the SOF core missions; it is, quite correctly, on everyone's mission list.

    * Emphasized to point out that there's only so much SOF, in any mid or larger sized commitment, conventional forces will have to do direct and combat FID.
    Last edited by Ken White; 08-10-2008 at 01:28 AM.

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    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    Default

    Outside of the effort already put forward within the FMTU under MSOB, the Marine Corps is not directing resources to establish a substantial advisory group. The tasks won't go away, but a concept for a standing organization was recently killed from what I recall.

    EDIT: MCTAG is (or was perhaps) its name.

  13. #13
    Council Member Boot's Avatar
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    Default Gen Amos guidance is out...

    his second priority is to operationalize MCTAG, looking at its role and mission to so they can efficiently carry them out, also potentially changing the name also. Very interesting. In the background he talks about needing Marines with unique and highly skill sets to do these type operations. Interesting.

    Boot
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-03-2010 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Note added and PM to author. 3/11 remove Mods note

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    Default

    It is now available online:

    35th Commandant of the Marine Corps: Commandant's Planning Guidance 2010
    ....The pages that follow provide my guidance and priorities for the Marine Corps. In them I speak of who we are, where we will operate, what we will do, and where we are headed. Each of you from Private to General, Civilian Marines, Families and those who support our Corps will contribute to our success...

  15. #15
    Council Member Boot's Avatar
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    Default A bird told me...

    that MCTAG may absorb SCETC...anyone hear this?

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    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    What is MCTAG and what is SCETC?
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

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    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Here ya go...


  18. #18
    Council Member Xenophon's Avatar
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    Default

    I have not heard that, and I probably would have.

    Unless this is a FSRG recommendation. Then I wouldn't know.

    Anyway, SCETC doing some Security Cooperation tasks in Quantico and MCTAG doing others in Norfolk makes zero sense. Why not combine them?

  19. #19
    Council Member Boot's Avatar
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    Default I thought so too..

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
    I have not heard that, and I probably would have.

    Unless this is a FSRG recommendation. Then I wouldn't know.

    Anyway, SCETC doing some Security Cooperation tasks in Quantico and MCTAG doing others in Norfolk makes zero sense. Why not combine them?
    nm

  20. #20
    Council Member Boot's Avatar
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    Default Also heard that...

    MCTAG's name will change. Not sure of what it will change to. The "Training" in Marine Corps Training and Advisory Group, will be dropped in the new title so as to distance the organization from appearing as a supporting establishment organization and also as part of the "fully operationalization" of that organization outlined in the CMC's guidance. I do know that its full speed ahead with their mission, and it is an organization that is staying, and will eventually grow.

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