How long does it take to train an Army?

[Uboat509]

As far as I can see the "crippling" beliefs are generally those associated with two areas. The first is self esteem, and social standing. The second is acceptance of empirical evidence and logic. Once you address those two issues in a way that says,

A.) "You are no better than anyone else. You are judged and advanced by words and deeds alone."
B.) "There is no other law than logic. G*d has no place in this."

While I agree with these two things being significant problems, both of which I have personally experienced, I would not say that they are the only crippling problems. But let's say for the sake of argument that these are the only two crippling problems in Iraq. How do you go about fixing them? I don't pretend to know anything about Israeli Arabs but I can make certain assumptions. One is that they do not live in an Arab culture, they live in an Arab sub-culture with in the greater Israel culture. That's an important distinction. That means that although they may be devout Muslims, and they may have tribal loyalties, that's all local. Once they leave their local communities to get jobs, go to school, join the Army etc. they have to leave that all behind and learn to live and function in Israeli culture. I don't know if Israeli Arabs have tribal sheiks but I do know that even if they do they do not hold anywhere near the power of tribal sheiks in an Arab country. Dealing with A.) should be pretty easy in the Israeli army because it is true. There are no tribes in Israeli culture and familial ties rarely get you anywhere. I would imagine that Arabs living in Israel learn this because they have to. The overriding culture in Israel is secular and egalitarian and anyone living in that society must, of needs, learn how to assimilate there. That isn't the case in Iraq. It's quite the opposite in fact. The overriding culture in Iraq is tribal and religion dominated. Tribal standing and familial relations get you everywhere in Iraq. Religion dominates nearly every aspect of life (more so in Shia than Sunni areas but it is there either way). We can create areas where A.) is true, a platoon here, a company there but ultimately any entities that we create will be subsumed by the greater Iraqi culture where tribal standing and familial relationships get you further than hard work. Getting rid of that attitude will require changing the entire society from the top down and the that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Arabs serving in the Israeli Army (Druzim, Bedouin etc) have generally all been through the Israeli School system and generally have belief sets that do not hinder their understanding or execution of military skills

That's huge. If we could create and implement a western style education system in Iraq we could probably fix a lot of our problems (though certainly not all of them).

SFC W

[reed11b]

That's huge. If we could create and implement a western style education system in Iraq we could probably fix a lot of our problems (though certainly not all of them).

SFC W

Education as an intergal part of COIN? Sounds like a new thread.
Who would best run oversite of the new education system instead of just pooring money into int?
Reed

[reed11b]

the humor of bad spelling. that would be pouring money into it btw.
Reed

[jmm99]

but the following may be of interest to some here

US military trainers say Georgian troops weren't ready for war with more powerful Russia
MATTI FRIEDMAN
AP News
Aug 18, 2008 14:28 EST

U.S. military trainers — the only American boots on the ground — say the Georgian soldiers they knew who were sent to battle the Russians had fighting spirit but were not ready for war. .......

http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=302938

[reed11b]

But I do have to wonder if it was completly frank and honest or if a degree of CYA was involved.
Reed

[Ken White]

But I do have to wonder if it was completly frank and honest or if a degree of CYA was involved.
Reed

Don't think they have any need to do that, why do you think so?

We've said all along that the training was aimed only at internal defense and to prep for the Iraq mission. IIRC, we said we would not do any higher formation training to specifically avoid annoying the Russians...

[reed11b]

was that it was probably accurate. I have just learned to always ask "what else is true?" and CYA is a common theme w/i the military.
Reed