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Thread: ACSW and Fuzed Airburst Rounds

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    Council Member reed11b's Avatar
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    Default ACSW and Fuzed Airburst Rounds

    The ACSW appears to be dead or at least comotose and I have heard very little about 25mm fuzed airburt rounds lately. While the old XM307 and XM25 were of dubious value in the eyes of us infantry types, it seems ideal for a vehicle weapons system, particularly against the man-portable ATGM threat. Any word out there on continuing work in this field? What about for the ATK LW25 or XM109 system? Any work on fuzed air-burst rounds in 40x53?
    Reed

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    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reed11b View Post
    The ACSW appears to be dead or at least comotose and I have heard very little about 25mm fuzed airburt rounds lately. While the old XM307 and XM25 were of dubious value in the eyes of us infantry types, it seems ideal for a vehicle weapons system, particularly against the man-portable ATGM threat. Any word out there on continuing work in this field? What about for the ATK LW25 or XM109 system? Any work on fuzed air-burst rounds in 40x53?
    Reed
    40x53mm HEAB is available OTS, ask ST Kinetics in Singapore. It's also being developed for U.S. Mk.19 and Mk.47 afaik.

    I doubt the value of HEAB against ATGM teams, though. It's desirable to hit before the ATGM hits, and that is likely not possible if careful lasing is required. A disruption of physically ineffective near misses with HE is likely more useful than a late HEAB hit.

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    Council Member reed11b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuchs View Post
    40x53mm HEAB is available OTS, ask ST Kinetics in Singapore. It's also being developed for U.S. Mk.19 and Mk.47 afaik.

    I doubt the value of HEAB against ATGM teams, though. It's desirable to hit before the ATGM hits, and that is likely not possible if careful lasing is required. A disruption of physically ineffective near misses with HE is likely more useful than a late HEAB hit.
    PPHE is not a "guided" round, range determination is instantaneous. Also my experience shows that, especially with good IR capability, AT ambush teams can be spotted before they are in position to fire. The more dangerous you make approaching a vehicle the more you force the enemy to fire further away and with less aiming time, further reducing the possibility of a hit. PPHE rounds theoretically offer a lot of potential in this area, so I am surprised that they seem to have been placed low on the priority list despite great initial interest.
    Reed

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    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuchs View Post
    40x53mm HEAB is available OTS, ask ST Kinetics in Singapore. It's also being developed for U.S. Mk.19 and Mk.47 afaik.

    I doubt the value of HEAB against ATGM teams, though. It's desirable to hit before the ATGM hits, and that is likely not possible if careful lasing is required. A disruption of physically ineffective near misses with HE is likely more useful than a late HEAB hit.
    I'm not sure I follow your line of thoughts here Fuchs. I understand the point about immediate suppression being the desired effect, but there should be no difference between a dismounted ATGM team, and an ATGM mounted on an APC/IFV.

    We (US at least), have moved towards lasing capabilities to ensure higher first round hit and kill probabilities. I can't imagine that someone calculated that lasing was going to increase aquisition times, and made a conscious decision to pursue that capability with ATGMs being so prevalent on APCs/IFVs.

    There is always the option to go manual on some turret systems and get some rounds out for suppression.

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    Council Member reed11b's Avatar
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    Default jcutis

    Fuchs is reffering to the airburst medium calber rounds when he speaks of lasing. The ATGM teams is in referance to the ability of vehicles equiped w/ said medium caliber air-burst rounds to engage dismouted ATGM hunter-killer teams.
    Reed

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