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Thread: Army Service Uniform tomorrow?

  1. #21
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    Default Pinks & greens was good

    even if it was before my time. Never liked Greens all that much but didn't dislike them all that much either. Always thought that the beret for everybody was a bad idea, especially putting the Ranger Rgt into a tan one. But I have always liked Dress Blues.

    OK, that said, when will the Army wear the new/old uniform? Pet peeve has been in the last 2 decades the tendency to wear jeans and T shirts - oops, I mean BDUs/ACUs to work with the "suits." If one works in an office one should dress for the office; if one works in the field one should dress for the field. Unlike WWII (and before) one uniform won't serve both purposes. If the "suits" wear ties, so should the soldiers who work with them. If the "suits" come to work in open collar, then Class B for the soldier. The IO point to be made is, I think, that soldiers are different from civilians in ways that are represented by the uniform but the military can and should show courtesy to the civilians they work with, for, or who work for them by wearing uniforms that are both appropriate to the environment and meet the same standard of dress as in business dress for the office.

    I rest my rant.

    Cheers

    JohnT

  2. #22
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Added thought on that.

    Saw a picture of a dozen or so Defense Attaches lined up for a meet and greet at a Malaysian Defense show; all of them in service uniforms with garrison or service caps -- except the US Army LTC in beret and ACU. Not good...

    That's not a negatron on the Blues, it is one on all day, every day, everywhere wear of the ACU.

  3. #23
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    Saw a picture of a dozen or so Defense Attaches lined up for a meet and greet at a Malaysian Defense show; all of them in service uniforms with garrison or service caps -- except the US Army LTC in beret and ACU. Not good...

    That's not a negatron on the Blues, it is one on all day, every day, everywhere wear of the ACU.
    Agreed. Had a fellow attache who insisted on wearing beret, jump boots, and 82d patch on attache duty. He showed up in Rwanda for a senior level meet between the USG and the Rwandan VP/SecDef. The Ambassador's secretary told him he looked "cute" in his little red hat. He left early.

    There is a place for field uniform and a place for a more formal attire. I just don't like that white shiirt with the blue pants. I thought the original gray shirt without all the salad was great for the office and we wore it at CGSC as faculty and students. Then of course we had to start hanging all the stuff on it.

    We never learn. We just redo anew.

    Tom

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    I've also never been a beret fan even though I've worn 'em in green and maroon -- but then, nor am I a fan of the service cap.
    Well, at least it's not a garrison cap. If you think about it, a garrison cap makes no sense at all as a piece of headgear. It serves no practical purpose; it doesn't shade the eyes and it can be hard to keep on in a stiff wind.

    A garrison cap also has a rather strange and unique ability, in that it takes whatever "look" a soldier has going for himself naturally and magnifies it out of proportion: put a garrison cap cocked "just so" on a square jawed Sergeant Rock type and he looks all the harder core; put one on a sad sack and he looks like a bigger and sadder sack.

    I mean, when you think about it, a garrison cap.....(pause, gasp!) you know, I think I just described a beret!

    "What is all this about a beret? The beret, of course, is a Basque headgear which serves no purpose whatever. It does not hold off the rain. It does not keep the sun out of the eyes or off the back of the neck. It blows off in a wind, and it offers no protection against bumps and knocks. I have nothing against the Basques, but the beret is a silly hat and should not be given consideration as part of the modern military uniform. The fact that it has assumed a certain badge-glamour is apparent, but not irrevocable. There are ways of making a man's uniform more distinguished looking without attempting to be 'fashionable.' " - Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Cooper
    "Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen." - Jeff Cooper

  5. #25
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default You CANNOT wear

    your baseball cap with your Blues!

    If you were a Drill Sgt, you could wear your Smokey bear hat -- that covers the eyes and ears, keeps the sun away, can be kept on in a stiff wind if you use a chin or rear strap; It's one of two one hundred percent American military head gear items and it only take about a half pound of sugar a week to keep the brim stiff -- unless you want to wear it like this LINK, the guy standing at the far end of the flatcar...

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    Everytime I see a news report about a big fight in Iraq or Afghanistan and I get all nostalgic and think about getting back in, something like this comes along and reminds me of the foolishness that drove me out.

    I nearly spit Johnny Walker all over my screen after seeing that photo of the new uniform. That guy has more stuff on his shirt than a greeter at Wal-Mart. It looks like whoever designed this eyesore was trying to cram everything from every uniform into one. I support the effort to decrease the number of uniforms, but making that smaller set of uniforms so much more complex and foolish looking seems counterproductive. Whatever benefit is achieved by having one less uniform is offset by the frustration of assembling it and the embarassment of wearing it.

  7. #27
    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmedlap View Post
    Everytime I see a news report about a big fight in Iraq or Afghanistan and I get all nostalgic and think about getting back in, something like this comes along and reminds me of the foolishness that drove me out.

    I nearly spit Johnny Walker all over my screen after seeing that photo of the new uniform. That guy has more stuff on his shirt than a greeter at Wal-Mart. It looks like whoever designed this eyesore was trying to cram everything from every uniform into one. I support the effort to decrease the number of uniforms, but making that smaller set of uniforms so much more complex and foolish looking seems counterproductive. Whatever benefit is achieved by having one less uniform is offset by the frustration of assembling it and the embarassment of wearing it.
    The thing to remember is that you aren't required to trip out the B uniform as Mr. Paratrooper has done, just as you could do that with the current green shirt.

    And I will never be embarrassed to wear my uniform.
    "A Sherman can give you a very nice... edge."- Oddball, Kelly's Heroes
    Who is Cavguy?

  8. #28
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    I think if you're modest about it, it looks sharp.

    As for Mr. Paratrooper I have three words: VFW Starter Kit.
    Example is better than precept.

  9. #29
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTK View Post
    I think if you're modest about it, it looks sharp.

    As for Mr. Paratrooper I have three words: VFW Starter Kit.
    Don't forget the ubiquitous glow yellow defeat all threats safety belt

  10. #30
    Council Member wm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    I rest my case

    This looks like a mall security guard
    Or Feld Marschal Goering
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
    The greatest educational dogma is also its greatest fallacy: the belief that what must be learned can necessarily be taught. Sydney J. Harris

  11. #31
    Council Member wm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    your baseball cap with your Blues!

    If you were a Drill Sgt, you could wear your Smokey bear hat -- that covers the eyes and ears, keeps the sun away, can be kept on in a stiff wind if you use a chin or rear strap; It's one of two one hundred percent American military head gear items and it only take about a half pound of sugar a week to keep the brim stiff -- unless you want to wear it like this LINK, the guy standing at the far end of the flatcar...
    And what, besides the animosity of the Cav, would be wrong with a return to the black Stetson?

    On the decorations: We are talkijg about merit badges here, aren't we? Seems to me the Boy Scouts and girl Scouts both use a sash over the shoulder to display all their merit badges. I guess the Army won't try that option since it, unlike the Scouts, is still in search of adult leadership.
    Last edited by wm; 08-21-2008 at 02:42 PM.
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
    The greatest educational dogma is also its greatest fallacy: the belief that what must be learned can necessarily be taught. Sydney J. Harris

  12. #32
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Nor was I ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavguy View Post
    And I will never be embarrassed to wear my uniform.
    embarrassed but I sure was embarrassed by and for others on occasion...

  13. #33
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wm View Post

    On the decorations: We are talkijg about merit badges here, aren't we? Seems to me the Boy Scouts and girl Scouts both use a sash over the shoulder to display all their merit badges. I guess the Army won't try that option since it, unlike the Scouts, is still in search of adult leadership.
    Brilliant--combine the sash with the safety belt!


    Wayne, we are in twubble now

  14. #34
    Council Member wm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    Brilliant--combine the sash with the safety belt!


    Wayne, we are in twubble now
    Tom, I think we need to get this to the Army Uniform Board and Army Safety Center ASAP.
    We can make the belt look like the old Sam Brown Belt , only black and wider in order to support the DUI, flashes, tabs, and associated "warrior" symbology. We embed some strobing LEDs as the safety device, with the battery and on/off switch in a "cartridge box" attavched at the back of the belt. Shoot, it could even have loops to attach a sabre scabbard.

    Alternatively, think of the sash worn by Lt Warf on Star Trek Next Generation, only in black leather.
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
    The greatest educational dogma is also its greatest fallacy: the belief that what must be learned can necessarily be taught. Sydney J. Harris

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavguy View Post
    The thing to remember is that you aren't required to trip out the B uniform as Mr. Paratrooper has done, just as you could do that with the current green shirt.
    That's a good point. The NCO pictured is probably sporting all of those ribbons, badges, et cetera, so as to demonstrate how various accouterment are properly displayed. That said, I also remember the mercifully few occasions when class A or blues were required and we were expected to wear every single item that we were authorized. I learned this when I caught some heat from a commander who noticed that I had all of the standard fare (GWOT, NDSM, ASM, etc), but no medals on my uniform (AAM, ARCOM, BSM, etc) and he knew that I had been awarded them. I pointed out that I never put them on my ORB and didn't particularly care about them. He seemed to be personally offended at this and ordered me to put the awards on my ORB and on my uniform and redo my DA photo. (Background: I'm not a big fan of officers getting medals unless there is an objective standard for them - I know some officers who are Silver Star awardees who didn't even deserve BSMs, but some E-4's for whom the opposite is true). I've seen some officers and senior NCOs go so far as to dictate which combat patch will be worn - an unnecessary expense and hassle for the E-4 who falls under his arbitrary rule and must get his uniform altered when he is already within regulation.

    There are definitely some good aspects of the change (fewer uniforms, more emphasis upon regimental affiliation and combat service), but the goofy look really makes me wonder how this reflects upon the Army in the eyes of the nation that it serves, especially at a time when confidence in the Army is so critical. The flash and pizzaz of the vivid blue and bright white detract from what civilians generally associate with competency and experience: ribbons and badges placed upon a subdued colored uniform that reflects the calm and firm bearing of an officer. This uniform is all flash, causing the abundance of ribbons and badges to just blend in with the rest of the flashiness and make the individual wearing it look like the typical Wal-Mart greeter who sports a vest full of buttons and a goofy hat.

    Fortunately, the ACU remains the uniform that most Soldiers will wear most of the time, so maybe it's not a big deal.

  16. #36
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Whistle. We need a whistle pocket on the

    Quote Originally Posted by wm View Post
    Tom, I think we need to get this to the Army Uniform Board and Army Safety Center ASAP.
    We can make the belt look like the old Sam Brown Belt , only black and wider in order to support the DUI, flashes, tabs, and associated "warrior" symbology. We embed some strobing LEDs as the safety device, with the battery and on/off switch in a "cartridge box" attavched at the back of the belt. Shoot, it could even have loops to attach a sabre scabbard.
    Sam Browne.

    Schmedlap said:
    "...The flash and pizzaz of the vivid blue and bright white detract from what civilians generally associate with competency and experience: ribbons and badges placed upon a subdued colored uniform that reflects the calm and firm bearing of an officer. This uniform is all flash, causing the abundance of ribbons and badges to just blend in with the rest of the flashiness and make the individual wearing it look like the typical Wal-Mart greeter who sports a vest full of buttons and a goofy hat."
    Actually he said a lot of things I agree with totally and that all make sense but the quoted part in particular is my concern. I suspect we will draw more adverse than favorable comments; the white shirt is, I think, a particularly bad move.

    As to the male uniform model, he may be a paratrooper as someone above said but from what he's wearing and displaying, I'm inclined to suspect he's not, he's just airborne. There's a difference. Don't know him so that may be unfair; if it is I apologize to him. The statement that he may just be wearing all that stuff to show where it goes may also be correct -- that, to me, is the point -- that much stuff, again channeling Schmedlap, shouldn't be worn on a duty uniform by anyone. IMO of course, YMMV..

  17. #37
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    These uniforms are awful. Pure slop. I don't think a single female Sergeant Major was involved in the selection process.
    "Speak English! said the Eaglet. "I don't know the meaning of half those long words, and what's more, I don't believe you do either!"

    The Eaglet from Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland

  18. #38
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    Ski,

    How do you know the Army uniforms were all designed by men?

    Look at the placement of the nametags/tapes. If it had been designed by a woman (or a man who gave a darn about their emotional comfort), it would have been no lower than the collar or shoulderboards.

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    Default the best part

    I think everyone missed that they took out the best part... the suspenders.

    What else are women suppossed to snap when dancing with you at a wedding or ball?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by patmc View Post
    I think everyone missed that they took out the best part... the suspenders.

    What else are women suppossed to snap when dancing with you at a wedding or ball?
    hmmmmmm garters?

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