Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: OODA vs. SARA

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default OODA vs. SARA

    The folks at DNI just published a 4GW/COIN manual for Military/Police Operations. The OODA Loop is replaced with the POP (Problem Oriented Police) Loop of SARA (Scanning,Analysis,Response,Assessment). Not a bad idea.

    http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/pdf/fmfm_1-3a_police.pdf

  2. #2
    Council Member Mark O'Neill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    307

    Default A fundamental problem might be

    that COIN is a reality but 4GW is 'bunk'. I query the utility of publications that counter an unvalidated theoretical construct rather than a reality.

    I have noticed a trend amongst many contemporary authors in our area of interest that they detract from their efforts when they lean too far forward in their eagerness to appear 'cutting edge'. In this case, the introduction of the term '4GW' adds little except a downside.

    Cheers

    Mark

  3. #3
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    8,060

    Default What Mark said, plus

    I thought POP stood for the most common crime resulting in bumping one's head when being put in the back seat of the cruiser, Pi$$!ng Off Police? More arrests for that than any other crime in the US...

  4. #4
    Council Member Juan Rico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Neither Here Nor There
    Posts
    26

    Default send in the ambulance chasers!

    a good reverse-engineering of law enforcement principles to military matters, they touched on lapd's rampart alvarado corridor project but missed to mention that the most integral part of this project was the gang injunction portion which has to do more with the city attorney's office, the district attorney, the courts, ACLU and defense lawyers doing what they do best. standing up a solid criminal justice system (or as good as it can be) is the end game. any coin/policing analogy will not be complete without the lawyers.

    a short piece from the naval post grad, monterey:
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0729/p09s02-coop.html
    How are we doing in Iraq? To help answer this question, the United States government came up with 18 benchmarks for progress. For me, 18 are just too many. I favor the "KISS" principle: keep it simple, stupid. So I propose one simple benchmark to replace them all: the number of Iraqi lawyers and the lawsuits they file.
    لا أريد لأحد أن يسكت عن الخطأ أو أن يتستر عن العيوب والنواقص‏‏‏‏
    حافظ الأسد

  5. #5
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The State of Partachia, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean
    Posts
    3,947

    Default

    I strongly suspect that this a Bill Lind lead publication. FMFM-1a was, so this seems to be the same beast. Like FMFM-1a, I'll most probably just not get it. I'll give it a read anyhow...
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

  6. #6
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    499

    Default

    I read it. For the most part I liked it. I didn't agree with everything, of course, but it made some good points: like the reminders not to alienate the community. We all know that, of course, but it's always worth repeating.

    It also stated the belief that in COIN (and in policing?) the center of gravity is not the enemy but the people. Maybe I've always sort of thought along those lines in policing but never really seen it articulated as a "center of gravity" before.

    I understand the initial skepticism because of Lind's involvement, but look at it this way: if it makes some good points, then it makes some good points whether Lind wrote it or not; if it's worthless, then it's worthless even if Clausewitz wrote it. Just evaluate it on it's own merits, even if the author has written other things that you disagree with.

    It doesn't matter what those acronyms are, though. I can never remember them when I need to.
    "Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen." - Jeff Cooper

Similar Threads

  1. Center of Gravity Construct
    By Strickland in forum Doctrine & TTPs
    Replies: 152
    Last Post: 02-25-2013, 08:06 PM
  2. OODA Rethought
    By RTK in forum Futurists & Theorists
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 08-07-2010, 06:12 PM
  3. Boyd and Lind Rebuttal
    By William F. Owen in forum Futurists & Theorists
    Replies: 145
    Last Post: 05-27-2008, 02:46 PM
  4. How we fight Wars?
    By William F. Owen in forum Adversary / Threat
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 02-08-2008, 02:56 AM
  5. Lessons Learned in Iraq Show Up in Army Classes
    By DDilegge in forum Training & Education
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-24-2006, 06:03 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •