All about Camouflage & BCU (inc cartoons)

[reed11b]

My inner geardo votes for multicam...
Reed

[Ken White]

IIRC, the Natick rationale was that 'there is no black in nature...' one of the more brilliant statements by any Army proponent for something.

As for Woodland, one would hope not but the Army can be about that stupidly stubborn when someone tells them they have or had a bad idea. Scroll through the picures at the Multicam site (LINK) and note the Woodland - Multicam contrasts. The ACU has the same problem Woodland has as it is washed more or in harsh water /soaps, it fades badly and not only loses it anti IR properties but has an enhanced IR / thermal problem. Multicam seems to have found a solution to both problems.

The Army probably will not be willing to pay Crye for a license and will then develop its own pattern -- probably Woodland II which will be about as poor as Woodland was / is. Maybe they'll surprise me and do this right...

I'm with Rifleman and Reed, Multicam's about as good as it gets nowadays.

Added: and with George:

the responsible bean counters should be summarily fired.

[IntelTrooper]

I've always been a fan of the Afghan Border Police pattern, although I don't think it is any more effective at camouflaging the wearer than ACUs.

[Rifleman]

There's always OG 107s.

After a few days in the field they usually looked like the last thing you had been rolling in, especially if they were a little faded out to start with.

[William F. Owen]

There's always OG 107s.

After a few days in the field they usually looked like the last thing you had been rolling in, especially if they were a little faded out to start with.

Worked and worked well. Nothing wrong with OG's. The IDF has thought about Camo clothing and always rejected it, because it reality, it never works, once its out of its intended environment! ACU is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Any expeditionary army needs 3 kinds of cammo, if it want's to play dress up.

If I was King, and some folks (congress) wanted something other than OG, I's suggest looking the old WW2 Pattern SAS Smock.

[Tom Odom]

They tested the ACU at JRTC and I share my office with the Natick rep. I did give him a ration of ####e including:

We've got a special man in the audience today, Right now, it's Mr Leo. He's a fashion consultant for the Army.

"Oh, thank you, Adrian. I'm just very happy to be here. I want to tell you something. You know, this whole camouflage thing for me doesn't work very well".

Why is that?

"Well, because you go in the jungle, I can't see you. You know, it's like wearing stripes and plaid. For me, I want to do something different."

[Fuchs]

Black is indeed quite rare in nature, but that's not the problem.

It's indeed helpful to create contrast, but it simply fits into very few environments and a large share of darkness in patterns stands out even at long range if the background is light.

One key problem with dark/black camouflage (even if only partial) is that it's relatively easy to see in low light vision because it doesn't reflect the low light as other surfaces.


Overall, there are good reasons for and against black, and two cases when it's right and when not:

* Black is right if soldiers can best (only) really hide themselves in shadows.
This is true in very closed terrain where short range (up to 100m) camouflage is important and long-range camouflage less important. This has also an impact on the size of the pattern.

* Black is completely wrong in, well, the opposite case. Long lines of sight, long range combat, camouflage possible even outside of shadows.
Black is also wrong if the vegetation allows for effective hiding on open terrain, like on high grass.

I wouldn't just change the pattern to improve camouflage anyway; we need to go to 3D camouflaging.
Examples:
"Camouflage system"
http://www.pri.uk.com/html/clothingthumbs.html#systems2
and this
http://soldiersystems.net/2009/06/11/boonie/

It could even look orderly in garrison - and be sliced up along marked lines for deployment (and field training).

I would use such camo on arms, shoulders and chest.

[Rifleman]

Worked and worked well. Nothing wrong with OG's. The IDF has thought about Camo clothing and always rejected it, because it reality, it never works, once its out of its intended environment!

Interestingly, it's common to see tiger stripes on SF troops from B-52 Delta, mobile guerrilla forces, and mobile strike forces in photos taken in the mid '60s.

In photos of MACVSOG recon teams taken later in the war they are almost always wearing OGs, both SF and the indigs.

The story I've heard is that tigers were great if the wearer was still but their boldness seemed to "jump" out at an observer if the wearer moved but that OGs appeared a little more blurry. I've even read accounts of SF having their tigers embroidered with patches and insignia and saving them for garrison wear. They called them "profile suits." So there's at least one case when it was camo for garrison and OGs for the field!

I don't know if the blurry v. bold appearance holds true with all dull solids or solids in other environments but I've also read that troops in the ETO found the German field grey quite effective.

[Xenophon]

You mean the ACUs don't work in Afghanistan? You mean it's not a nation full of gravel driveways? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.

Anyone else think that the only way the ACU makes sense is if the Confederacy won the Civil War and had updated their uniforms?

[William F. Owen]

In photos of MACVSOG recon teams taken later in the war they are almost always wearing OGs, both SF and the indigs.

The story I've heard is that tigers were great if the wearer was still but their boldness seemed to "jump" out at an observer if the wearer moved but that OGs appeared a little more blurry. I've even read accounts of SF having their tigers embroidered with patches and insignia and saving them for garrison wear. They called them "profile suits." So there's at least one case when it was camo for garrison and OGs for the field!

All true. I have named attributed and recorded accounts from SOG Recon team members from 1965-72. OGs and web gear were often sprayed with black paint.
Some teams also wore "Half-black", having completely black trousers or tops, blended with an OG top or bottom.

In 1982, the IDF in Beirut, used dust and ashes to modify the colour of their OG's, so just like putting on camouflage cream, then dusted up their Gear before patrols. Personally, I believe something similar is the way forwards, be it, tape, cloth strips or some powder or washable paint type compounds.

[Ken White]

with mold?

[slapout9]

Why don't they camouflage themselves like the Afghan population

[jkm_101_fso]

Why don't they camouflage themselves like the Afghan population

Because the CSM's head would explode.

[Ken White]

Need to make those guys responsible for training, give 'em something to do to keep them from silliness. Most experienced Soldier in a Battalion, theoretically, and no real job. The good ones find things that need doing, the others worry about police call and the type of watch cap being worn (if they allow them at all).

When one of you gentlemen gets to a position of power, change that paragraph in AR 600-200 that says a NCO selected by the Promotion Board will be promoted unless his Commander writes a letter to remove him for cause. Replace it with 'will be promoted when his Commander writes a letter of assent.' Commanders don't have time to write letters to preclude marginal people getting promoted so the slugs slide by. They will take time to write letters only for their really good people thus improving quality.

Promoting people just because they've been around a while is not conducive to rewarding quality performers or getting the best in position to do some good. Nor is promotion by photograph but that's another thread.

[IntelTrooper]

because the csm's head would explode.

roflmao. :d :d :d