Ukraine (closed; covers till August 2014)

**kaur** · 06-28-2014

mirhond, another Russian in Donetsk Republic hierarchy as deputy of Russian PR guy Borodai. He paticipated during the two rounds of peace talks with OSCE, Kutchma, Medvetchuk etc. His name is Sergei Kavtaradze.

http://antimaydan.info/images/110654.jpg

This is his диссертация кандидата исторческих наук about Russian peacekeeping activities during ethnic conflicts in CIS territories from Lomonosov Moscow State University

http://www.dissercat.com/images/1page_diss/2318337.png

This is his study about manipulating with mind in Nazi Germany

http://www.socionauki.ru/journal/fil...i/2013_1/5.pdf

Seems to be right guy in right place at right time.

Who are there leading Donetsk people? FSB Strelkov as commander of armed wing, Russian PR guy Borodai as prime minister, Russian guy Kavtaradze as Borodai's deputy. I will not call all those cossacks and volunteers from Russia, but it seems that cadre and core are from Russia. Pluss hardware - MANPAD-s, tanks, MRL-s, RPG-s etc. ... and somebody calls this civil war.

mirhond, you posted book link. After little browser work with authors names I have to agree with Outlaw. If you find out who are Jon Hellevig and Janus Putkonen, you just can't belive the word in this book. I'm sorry.

**OUTLAW 09** · 06-29-2014

mirhond---since we now know that theT64 tanks inside the Ukraine are in fact Russian registered military equipment can you explain how these four tanks made it inside the Ukraine after Putin gave orders to "enhance border security" to attack a Ukrainian checkpoint which I thought your "freedom fighters" had issued a "truce"---seems they lie to.

The first checkpoint near Slovyansk was practically levelled by terrorists, reports the ТСН.

Gunmen attacked a Ukrainian checkpoint with 4 tanks and support of heavy mortar fire. Therefore the Ukrainian military had to retreat.

On Friday Ukrainians have retaken this checkpoint under their control and fortified it with tanks. The bodies of our dead soldiers had to be defused as the terrorists put mines under the bodies. The exact quantity of dead on the first checkpoint near Slovyansk is unknown as terrorists shot down two APCs and the guys simply burned alive

Seems that Putin was lying or the Russian military is lying but the Russian freedom fighters are what not lying?

Seems nothing can be trusted out of the mouths of Russia politicians and or freedom fighters these days.

But wait the new economic sanctions might tell us who is not lying.

**OUTLAW 09** · 06-29-2014

mirhond---this is why even your comments are not the truth.

Let us see ---the Russian Whitebook of HR is what based on your comments the "truth"?

06/29 10:06 Russian Foreign Ministry issues updated White Book on human rights abuse in Ukraine

BUT wait---when someone else releases a Human Right Violation Report on a country being 600% supported and armed by Russia then that is what "false"?

Not sure you should call the killing of 120,000 Syrians, over 2 million refugees, the use of barrel bombs, the use of chemical gas on civilians, the use of starvation as a weapons system equal to what---- the "discomfort" of proRussian Ukrainians now being robbed/killed by Russian "freedom fighters"---come on mirhond even you can see your own fallacies in your comments.

Oh---wait this Ukrainian thing started over what?--- someone's "language" and "a bunch of Nazi's" that no one seems to be able to find other than in Russian newspapers and in Russian minds?--come on mirhond get real.

19:59 Moscow raps UN's "biased" human rights document on Syria

Come on mirhond even you can see your "limitations" in what you are stating.

**mirhond** · 06-29-2014

Originally Posted by kaur

mirhond, you posted book link. After little browser work with authors names I have to agree with Outlaw. If you find out who are Jon Hellevig and Janus Putkonen, you just can't belive the word in this book. I'm sorry.

A perfect example of Ad Hominem Fallacy.
Don't be sorry, its completely human to reject the truth if the truth is too frustrating.

**kaur** · 06-29-2014

mirhond, how you comment Kavtaradze episode?

About Djukov. Since he became human rights expert, he was historian. He was historian, who no serious historian took seriously. His profile was publishing thin books with KGB archive sources. What unites those Finns? They are friends of Russia's "useful idiot" Johan Bckman. Truth is not frustrating, truth is, like this Djukov case shows, that Russia's bench of talking heads is quite short and during new ideological war, the same old faces pop up. Like this case shows, people have to even change their profile. Big country, too few talents? mirhond, don't you get that Russia has lied so much, that your social capital is less than than zero. If this helps your self-esteem, then fine. If your weekly task is drop here 1 story made by information officers, the I understand you also. Life in Moscow is not cheap. Just don't think that you can sell those stories here easily.

**mirhond** · 06-30-2014

Originally Posted by kaur

mirhond, how you comment Kavtaradze episode?

Just don't think that you can sell those stories here easily.

1. What is Kavtaradze epizode, in the first place?

2. You consider SWJ as a market to sell stuff? I, personally, think it's a plase to learn new things and update one's beliefs.

**OUTLAW 09** · 06-30-2014

Originally Posted by mirhond

1. What is Kavtaradze epizode, in the first place?

2. You consider SWJ as a market to sell stuff? I, personally, think it's a plase to learn new things and update one's beliefs.

mirhond---the only problem with your comments is 1) you never respond to direct comments or questions placed to you, 2) you throw out your photos and links and again they say nothing but take up computer space, 3) your opinions are really not your own but someone else's and 4) you actually work for someone so how can your comments be your own comments---come on mirhond really.....?

so mirhond---exactly what are the new things you learned and what did you learn that you could update your beliefs with ---outside of the single set of facts---that anything being said inside Russian and from Russians leaders is not quite the truth---but then why would you admit that what they say are false sine you work for them?

You should actually instead of learning and updating your beliefs improve your written English or at least use SpellChecker.

I do not expect any answer from you since you yourself stated that truth is a hard thing for you. But again truth to power is not your thing is it?

**OUTLAW 09** · 06-30-2014

mirhond---here is something for you to learn and to update your beliefs---remember you claimed here in SWJ that the T64 tanks were "purchased" from a corrupt Ukrainian Technical SGT----will be happy to quote you directly.

Well you did not respond to my comment that the one of the tanks was captured and it was registered to a Russian military unit and had never been issued to the Ukraine.

Now here is a photo from the eastern Ukraine depicting a commercial long haul truck carrying more tanks into the eastern Ukraine.

So is Putin lying when he stated there are now "enhanced border security measures in place" or are there a really large number of "corrupt" Russian Federal Border Security officers?-----and the article is in Russian for you to read easier as you have a hard time with your English.

http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2014/06/30/7030505/

**kaur** · 06-30-2014

Outlaw, maybe thouse trailer guys have just wrong postal code? Maybe they found those tanks in the forest, found out in internet that Ukraine has similar, thought that they should do good favor and deliver things to owner, but Donbas people hijacked the vehicles. There was lost tanks case some time ago and things may happen again

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...in-forest.html

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NSLWydzdZJE

**OUTLAW 09** · 06-29-2014

Originally Posted by mirhond

A perfect example of Ad Hominem Fallacy.
Don't be sorry, its completely human to reject the truth if the truth is too frustrating.

mirhond--finally happy to see that you fully agree that for Putin, Russia and yourself the "old" truth that the Crimea was Russian and eastern Ukraine as well as that "old" truth that borders are strictly to enlcose one's language is in fact a fantasy as you have admitted here a number of times recently.

Secondly, based on your own words those "Russian" T64Rvs were what an Ad Hominem Fallacy as it appears in your original own words that they were Ukrainian now seems as well what a fantasy?

Would you not agree?

See mirhond when you work for multiple bosses one forgets what one writes as you seem to never go back and reread what you have written---a bad habit or as you correctly stated an Ad Hominem Fallacy or maybe just fantasy on your part.

Trying to speak/write the truth is hard when the entire Russian leadership and the FSB speaks in tones other than the truth---right mirhond.