Page 20 of 97 FirstFirst ... 1018192021223070 ... LastLast
Results 381 to 400 of 1935

Thread: Ukraine (closed; covers till August 2014)

  1. #381
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    372

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    the only one you seem to throw out is the Nazi argument that all of the Ukraine are Nazi's---and yet you refuse to respond to the question on just why you accept Nazi's in the Crimea but when they are in the Ukraine you flip out.
    1. Straw Man Fallacy again. Show me the exact quotation where I call all Ukrainian Nazis.
    2. From what premiss you deducted that I accepted "Nazi's in the Crimea"?

    Cut out the sidestep in your double standards comment---it was just sidestepping--you simply did not answer a rather direct question did you not?
    OK, you are right, it was a sidestep. So, your question is
    how it is "possible" that while Russia condemns neo Nazi's and radical right wingers in the Ukraine the following neo Nazi's and radical right wingers participated in "democratic" elections in the Crimea
    , right?

    Well, its just happened. How? By will of the political leaders. You may question the reality, but it is here. Your question is rethoric. Is my answer satisfactory? Besides, why you didn't just asked "why" it's happened?

    Come on man ---get one argument at least correct.
    I already gave you one.

    So, Putin just spared two million people from civil war?
    You may try to falsify this argument, for instance. And don't ask me to reword this claim, so that you can easily attack it, I'am not going to make your job so easy (I myself see the flaw in that claim, why you, "old and expiriensed man" fail to see it?)

    you use a newspaper article to quote the "mistreatment of Ukrainian Jews" when the article said the opposite and yet you persist in only taking "selected" sentences that you perceive supports your view and YET overlook the entire article---GO back and reread your own article.
    OK, you caught me, I was manipulating the context.

    you claim to be Russian yet know no political sayings that would reflect you even understand your own society and its development or yet grew up in that society---maybe you are just apolitical which does happen these days and is OK
    1. By Gods, why I OUGHT to know THAT particular saying from the days of yore?
    2. What kind of alternative logic you use again to to deduct my cluelesness in current affairs from my ignorance of particular saying?

    you provide a photo that yet anyone could have created--as it is not dated which happens with most digital cameras these days-did you see the leg protection worn by one of the pictured men--- was exactly that worn by the Burkat----you did see that right?
    1.I'll give you a hint - you may SWITCH OFF that feature on camera
    2. Obviously that guy got leg gear from dead body of Berkut, or bought it in the shop. Why don't you ask where is he got his armband?

    for every article you find I can show you an article written by a number of individuals many of whom were Ukrainian Afghanistan veterans stating that there have been over 21 reports of Russian Spetnaz personnel inside the Ukraine---from your own great research you did see those reports correct?
    OK, provide at least one link, non-partisan and bull$hit-free.

    EXAMPLE:---You beat up on Ukrainian neo Nazi's but then when confronted with "evidence" as you call it which some of us would call reality then you shift your response and sidestep---come on mirhond stay with one argument and then counter what you get as a response back otherwise one would call what you are doing as misinformation nothing more nothing less my friend. The sentence that started with "Are they also extreme..... is a great example of how you suddenly change directions when confronted with a counter point to your initial argument.
    I lost your point. Example of what? What "evidence" are you talking about? from what I sidestepped?
    Give a link or quotation, as I do every time I post anything, have some quotation discipline.

    Is that what they taught you in debate/journalism/military classes?
    "OK, you spotted a dozen of bad guys, but what about other observers? Are they also extreme right or left or pro-Russian or in other way unreliable? If no, well, it's a spotlight fallacy".
    "Anyway, I'd be grateful if you at least try to falsify my arguments and disprove evidences which I posted here."
    1. Who are "they"? No I'am self educated, thanks to Eliezer Yudkovski and Paul Graham.
    2. What part of my answer you don't like and consider sidestepping? Please explain. You posted a list with a dosen right/Nazi international observers - OK, I trust you blindly, they are the "bad guys", then I asked you about other observers - for no answer. So, which rule prohibits me from asking a clarification question and why is it sidestepping?

    upd. Enjoy another video:
    Ukrainian BMD rolling over pro-Russian civilians somewhere around Doneztk.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3c2e-8ooqk

    Disclaimer: nobody got killed or hurt, just a little psycological damage. May be it's because none of those common folks wants to be a dead hero.
    Last edited by mirhond; 03-17-2014 at 06:14 PM.

  2. #382
    Council Member carl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Denver on occasion
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Speaking of stressing them, how about this, only half unserious.

    You can tell how a country is doing by which way the mail order brides flow. They do not flow into Russia. So this is what we do. We offer a green card and $20,000 to any educated Russian woman who wants to come over here. The Euro Union nations can do a similar thing. We will win two ways. First we get some good people who want to make their lives better and the Russian demographic problem will be exacerbated. We could expand the program by offering the same thing to any Russian with say a doctorate or doctorate level experience in any of the hard sciences or engineering professions.

    That should stimulate the bidding in the Kremlin.
    Last edited by carl; 03-17-2014 at 06:19 PM.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  3. #383
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    mirhond---come on guy WHAT Burkat was killed? WHAT shop did the person purchase it in? By the way if one is after true evidence then you leave the date/time on the picture and yes so even now place the GPS location on them---so this particular one had none of the above so it is pure propaganda the core question is why did you use it?

    Get real and stop the lousy sidestepping---all of your response have been misinformation nothing more nothing less.

    Answer examples to your two comments;

    1. Straw Man Fallacy again. Show me the exact quotation where I call all Ukrainian Nazis.

    Your used the news article on the mistreatment of Ukrainian Jews---the alluding too is the point you were pushing or was it not?

    2. From what premiss you deducted that I accepted "Nazi's in the Crimea"?

    Did not see you condemn the neo Nazi observers for even being "invited" by what the "democratic" Crimea ---check my comments below to an American saying that fits this.

    mirhond---will now end responding to you as I have learned what I needed to from you and your style of misinformation as it was /is something I had not seen before so it was an interesting learning session.

    Secondly, if you continue in these blogs you need to fully understand a few American sayings:

    1. "when someone does not respond to a specific comment then in fact that is a response"---you failed to respond to 14 directly focused comments

    2. then there is the really old American saying---"Fish or cut bait"

    And several others ---3. "popping smoke" or the derivative 4. "tango down"

    You need to know and understand these old American sayings.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 03-17-2014 at 07:04 PM.

  4. #384
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    372

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    Speaking of stressing them, how about this, only half unserious.
    We offer a green card and $20,000 to any educated Russian woman who wants to come over here. The Euro Union nations can do a similar thing. We will win two ways. First we get some good people who want to make their lives better and the Russian demographic problem will be exacerbated. We could expand the program by offering the same thing to any Russian with say a doctorate or doctorate level experience in any of the hard sciences or engineering professions.
    Good idea from the first glance, but in the long run, when virtually all who are already considering to migrate, leave the country, Putin&Co will get society dominated with die-hard supporters. When they finally figure out that their cause is lost, the'll nuke you, and I'am only half unseriuos.

    @OUTLAW 09

    WHAT Burkat was killed? WHAT shop did the person purchase it in?
    (Berkut, not burkat, memorize it already). Hey, jumping to conclusions is your trait, not mine I just made a wild guess. Besides, there is no need to kill a man to get his stuff, just knock him down. Such gear is available in any sports shop, i think.

    mirhond---since you seem to think photos are evidence here is a link from the Crimea today that shows the same shin guards being wore by Russian military personnel that seem to be shown in the photo you used for neo Nazi's in the Ukraine. Also worn by the Burkat---so were they really Nazi's or really Russians or what the heck maybe Chinese?
    So now give me an argument that counters the shin guards being worn in both photos since you are into arguments and evidence.

    By the way mirhond the same photo proves the entire Russian government and Putin blatantly lied that there were NO Russian military in the Crimea--come on now mirhond DISPROVE this photo. Seems the civilian defense groups got a new set of uniforms did they not?
    1. Yes, they do wear the same gear - so where is the contradiction to what I wrote about fair booty or sports shop?

    2. Yes, entire Russian government and Putin blatantly lied, I'am not surprised, you know... You want me to state a blatant lie too? No, i'll not, KGB agent is always honest, he can not lie

    Your used the news article on the mistreatment of Ukrainian Jews---the alluding too is the point you were pushing
    Blah-blah-blah.. Where is the exact quotation?

    Did not see you condemn the neo Nazi observers for even being "invited" by what the "democratic" Crimea.
    Well, I've read it here, right from your post. And why I OUGHT to condemn them? They are few, I know nothing about their actual political beliefs, while Ukrainian Nazis are very verbal and loud with "Hung the Muscowite!" slogan.

    The old Russian saying that ranting/raving and filling pages just with words is not a writer.
    Nope, never heard this one in this particular wording - provide a link, please.

    All you are espousing is misinformation and a utter waste of time so either state what your concrete argument is or move on.
    No, I'am quite happy with exchanging $hitballs here, also a get some training in written English, so I don't consider it is a waste of time. I've already stated my arguments, but you are ignoring or twisting it, so I believe you just like to argue for the sake of argument. Well, it's an old and legitimate sport, and I rarely tire of it.
    Last edited by mirhond; 03-17-2014 at 07:05 PM.

  5. #385
    Council Member carl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Denver on occasion
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Mirhond:

    Stand by son, you'll get your grade when the day is done.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  6. #386
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    mirhond---really wanted to disengage from your rambling misinformation but this particular use of a video by you goes to the heart of the current KGB/FSB/GRU misinformation campaign against both the Ukraine and the West.

    Here is your video link---now tell the readers here WHAT really occurred with the video that you evidently are claiming is the running over of proRussian Ukrainians---ARE you sure you want to stand by that "comment".

    upd. Enjoy another video:
    Ukrainian BMD rolling over pro-Russian civilians somewhere around Doneztk.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3c2e-8ooqk


    So during Ukrainian called military exercises a long armored convoy stops and WHO appears out of nowhere---proRussians but one is not so sure from the Russian that they are not really from Russia as they vehicle license plates are not shown--NOW who is doing the filming--definitely not the Army? If my dialects are good they are from Russia as the border is not far from this particular point in the road.

    ANYWAY the convoy wants to move on after their stop--- it then depicts at about 0515 into the video Ukrainian soldiers trying to surround the vehicle in order to keep civilians from being hit by the vehicle AND THEN what someone decides to thrown himself on the ground in front of the moving vehicle.

    MIRHOND---he threw himself rather gently onto the ground in front of the vehicle and then he was pulled out of the way by the soldiers.

    ONE might say he was a agent provocateur for the constantly filming camera. Actually in the US if one did exactly the same thing they would be arrested by the police so what is the problem as I thought Putin was all for the rule of law?

    The only thing I would fault the Ukrainian Army on is they do not have ground guides as we are required to have--BUT they did use soldiers to PROTECT the civilians around the vehicle.

    COME on mirhond is this the best the KGB/FSB/GRU has to throw on Russian TV for the homefront, Donetsk, and the Crimea?

    MAYBE this is why Putin seems to be lying when he says "loyal Russian are being mistreated".

    You truly need to get better at your misinformation videos---second rate attempt at grey propaganda.

    A TIP for your use of videos turn off the noise and strictly watch the video footage then the true story really becomes apparent which is opposite of what you alluded to-you will understand far more when the voices are filtered out--then try to build you narrative just using the pictures which did not work with this video=== as it did not work with the photo you tried to use previously.

    By the way your English has gotten bad again what happen to the previous responder-- his was better than yours.

    Have a great week in Moscow----and hang onto to your rubles.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 03-17-2014 at 07:49 PM.

  7. #387
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    13,343

    Default Miltary convoy obstructed: what does this tell us?

    I too have watched Mirhond's post link:
    Enjoy another video:
    Ukrainian BMD rolling over pro-Russian civilians somewhere around Doneztk.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3c2e-8ooqk
    My question would be simple. Would the Russian Army tolerate such obstruction, whilst on official movement?

    I couldn't follow the language nor the full sequence. The plainclothes official, whose ID card was shown, appeared to be making his point and towards the end soldiers were deployed to get the convoy moving safely.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 03-17-2014 at 11:05 PM.
    davidbfpo

  8. #388
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Firn---in comments yesterday by a former Russian Finance Minister the Russian budget this year was targeting a growth rate of 3.5% and if sanctions are imposed he is saying the growth rate may in fact be 0% and the Crimea costs were not factored in and approved for this year.

    Average Russian taxpayer will be carrying the Crimea burden for years to come.

    He indicated that there is talk of 80-90M USD per month in just support to keep the Crimea running and the Crimean's felt that with joining Russia their individual salaries would be going to Russian levels (was posted on placards around the cities) which is also not in the budget that was approved so he is estimating an annual cost of 20B USD per year just to do a steady state.

    His comment was interesting---the EU understands our economy better than we do.
    I can't comment on such details and he certainly knows more about the Russian economy then I will ever do. Still it is important to look at the basics.

    Right now the private sector rests on two pillars, tourism and agriculture. The public sector is rather large, partly due to the relative high number of retirees caused by the outflow of the (mostly ethnic Russian) youth and the attractive Crimean (think Florida) status and climate.

    With tourism facing a massive demand shock, bar miracles worked by Russian-sponsored incentives and 'patriotic' feelings and agriculture living on Ukrianian goodwill there will be many losers in the private sector. Now the Russian government can most easily (and costly) increase demand by pumping in Rubles by various means. Raises of public salaries and pensions, subventions and public works might be on the table but all that money has to come in from Russia as the Crimea was a net receiver of transfers even before.

    Given the poor track record of corruption and bad capital allocation in Russia and the terrible one it those 'frozen regions' I fear that in the long run many of the sky-high expectations of those who voted Russia will land hard. There will be some spillover into the private sector, but I doubt that the productivity will raise anywhere near the 'Russian wages', which should raise labour costs greatly and make some economic activities unattractive. All in all Russia will pay a high direct price for the Crimea and mght still come up short of the expectations of many...
    ----

    Stepping back I think that the 'center of gravity' of the Ukraine is the political willpower of the West, while the one of the Crimea is the economic strenght of Russia...
    Last edited by Firn; 03-17-2014 at 10:13 PM.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  9. #389
    Council Member Dayuhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Latitude 17° 5' 11N, Longitude 120° 54' 24E, altitude 1499m. Right where I want to be.
    Posts
    3,137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    And the key to combating them is stressing their economy like you and Firn have been saying. Those guys are not good at making things, not good at economies. We can do it. We'll see if we have the nerve. Putin and the boys do have nerve.
    That would depend on who you mean by "we". If "we" is the US and Europe acting together, yes. If "we" is the US alone, no: our economy is not sufficiently connected to that of Russia to inflict enough pain.

    Sanctions of course hurt both sides, and it's a question of who's willing to take the pain longest. In this case Russia would certainly have more pain, but Putin may be betting that Russians have a higher pain tolerance than, say, Germans, and fewer and less effective ways to force their government to end the pain. He may or may not be right. We'll see.
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”

    H.L. Mencken

  10. #390
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    13,343

    Default In the north faraway

    Moving to the north for a moment, two developments and I use the headline only. Seems to be a "balance" of sorts and a reminder that vigilance works both ways.

    Norway’s new Arctic giant spyship
    Link:http://barentsobserver.com/en/securi...-spyship-17-03

    Moving 3000 intelligence officers to Finnish border
    Link:http://barentsobserver.com/en/securi...h-border-14-03

    The website has other points of interest.
    davidbfpo

  11. #391
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Does not look good.

    Majorities of voters in the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine believe there is no candidate running for the presidential election planned for May 25, whom they trust with a vote to represent their interests. With two months still to go, the outcome of the poll is therefore already decided – it will be regarded by southern and eastern Ukrainians as a forced choice; an illegitimate result; and an outcome which cannot be relied on to protect the interests of the southerners and easterners.
    According to voter polling by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology, there are still large blocs of undecided voters or refuseniks in the south and east who may be persuaded to vote. The appointments of the steelmill oligarchs, Sergei Taruta and Igor Kolomoisky, as governors of the Donetsk and Dniepropetrovsk regions has been interpreted as an attempt by officials in Kiev to achieve this with cash and promises of job and pension benefits. But new poll evidence suggests that no amount of money can buy votes for the US-approved candidates — Vitali Klitschko, Petro Poroshenko, or Oleg Tyagnibok. The same can be said for the Russian-approved candidacy of Yulia Tymoshenko.

    http://johnhelmer.net/?p=10376

  12. #392
    Council Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,021

    Default Operation Rolling Thunder 0.001

    USAToday, Obama imposes sanctions on 7 Russians after Crimea vote (17 Mar 2014):

    WASHINGTON — President Obama announced Monday that he is leveling new sanctions against seven Russian officials the White House says have contributed to the crisis in Ukraine.

    Obama announced the sanctions one day after the Crimean region of Ukraine voted overwhelmingly to join Russia in a referendum that the U.S. and western allies vowed not to recognize.

    In comments at the White House to formally announce the sanctions, Obama said he believes there is still a diplomatic solution to end the crisis. At the same time, he warned that if Russia continues to interfere with Ukraine's sovereignty he stands ready to push for even tougher sanctions.

    "We are imposing sanctions on specific individuals for undermining the sovereignty, territorial integrity and government of Ukraine," Obama said."We are making it clear that there are consequences for their actions."

    The high-level government officials named by the White House are: Vladislav Surkov, Sergey Glazyev, Leonid Slutsky, Andrei Klishas, Valentina Matviyenko, Dmitry Rogozin, and Yelena Mizulina.
    ...
    In addition, the Treasury Department announced it is imposing sanctions against former Ukraine President Viktor Yanukovych, former Ukrainian presidential chief of staff Viktor Medvedchuk as well as Crimea-based separatist leaders Sergey Aksyonov and Vladimir Konstantinov. Those officials were being targeted under an executive order that Obama signed earlier this month.
    ...
    The White House announcement came after the European Union announced on Monday travel bans and asset freezes on 21 people for their involvement in the Ukraine crisis. The EU is not expected to announce the individuals who are being cited until Tuesday, but Obama administration officials believe there is some overlap in the U.S. and EU lists. ...
    Seriously, is this the vaunted first round of sanctions ?

    What comes next in what appears to be an exercise in strategic persuasion in accord with the doctrine of gradualism ?

    Regards

    Mike
    Last edited by jmm99; 03-18-2014 at 01:23 AM.

  13. #393
    Council Member carl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Denver on occasion
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Mike:

    That's the exact thing I thought when I heard about it, Operation Rolling Thunder. All those guys who died at the behest of fools. Sometimes it's good to be old, you can spot fools easier. But it's sad too because the fools never seem to stop coming.

    By the way, that was a good story about your mother buying you books. My parents never said no about books either. Long ago.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  14. #394
    Council Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,021

    Default Carl:

    One of my neighbors (way back then and more recently) graduated from Tech a year or two after I did, and went on to fly F-4s in the later stages of Rolling Thunder (which by then was a total shooting gallery - e.g., an amusement park for the NVA gunners and rocketeers); and later still in Linebacker I and II. The last two yielded positive tangible results.

    Of course, the theoretical graduated escalation strategy sounds good - especially for those who are not willing to take and inflict substantial immediate casualties. It does offer the hope (not a very good strategy) that peace can be achieved before one mounts too many rings up the ladder.

    Has a graduated escalation strategy worked in any war ? Serious question for someone who has actually studied it in depth. I haven't.

    Regards

    Mike

    PS: My mother's philosophy was that one is rich if, besides having a roof over one's head and food on the table, one has soap, water and a library card - then it depended on the person in the use of those riches. My dad's contribution (besides the roof and food) was to buy me as much .22LR ammo as I wanted to shoot.
    Last edited by jmm99; 03-18-2014 at 04:32 AM.

  15. #395
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    From an economic point of view it is important to look how the most similar 'independent' seperatist area, Abkhazia is doing. In this case Russian forces have enabled the creation of a new entity, practically completely politically isolated apart from Russian support. It was a tourism magnet before the collapse of the SU, with splendid beaches, but it has only 1/8 of Crimeas population and Russian tanks can just drive over the border. The economic and political situation was of course more desperate and especially more violent and in this case Russia supports another ethnic group which is barely larger then the second ethnicity.

    In 2010 the following EU paper described the state of the economy:

    B. ECONOMIC ASPECTS

    1.Dependence on Russian financial aid and investment

    Even though Abkhazia’s state budget has been steadily increasing over the past years, its dependence on Russia for budget support is as important as its reliance on Moscow’s military presence. In 2009, approximately 60 per cent (1.9 billion roubles, $65.5 million) of the state budget was direct support from Moscow. For 2010, the monetary figure will remain the same but fall in percentage terms, to 49 per cent (1.9 billion roubles, $63 million, out of a total budget of 3.875 billion roubles, $128.5 million). This includes both infrastructure projects and direct budget support. Russia also pays local pensions – many times larger than the Abkhazian gov-
    ernment’s $17 monthly allocations – to Russian pass-
    port holders, directly from its own budget.

    Russia also accounts for 99 percent of Abkhazia’s “foreign investment” and is by far its largest trade partner. In 2008, (figures for 2009 are incomplete) Abkhazian exports totalled 890 million roubles, while imports were 6.2 billion, leaving a deficit of over 5 billion roubles ($165.8 million). Abkhazia mainly exports scrap metal, gravel, tea, tangerines, hazelnuts, wine and some flowers. In 2008 there was some trade with Turkey (metals, lumber exports and fuel imports) and Romania (fuel imports), but Abkhazian officials gave no amounts or monetary value. They estimated that 80 per cent of everything consumed in Abkhazia is imported from Russia.
    The bit about the pensions to Russian passport owners out of the Russia budget is expecially interesting. Of course the Crimean pensions have been much higher and there should be a multiple of recipients. The balance of trade was even more amazing then I thought, roughly a relation of seven to one. On the other hand it is no surprise that Russia has to pay half of Abkhazias budget. If it was to do the same it could easily have to pay directly twenty times more.

    I have to leave it there for now but there is some interesting stuff to add later.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  16. #396
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    3,902

    Default Watershed moment?

    I suggest we are witness to a watershed moment in history.

    We are witnessing the demise the US as the preeminent world power.

    Unlikely that Russia will be brought down to earth by even a joint US/EU series of measures.

    A deeply poignant and sad moment.

  17. #397
    Council Member Dayuhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Latitude 17° 5' 11N, Longitude 120° 54' 24E, altitude 1499m. Right where I want to be.
    Posts
    3,137

    Default

    Has there been a day in the last 5 decades that has not seen somebody, somewhere. proclaiming the demise of American power?

    Pardon us if we fail to wail and rend our garments. If we did that every time we heard that our trade balance with China would be even worse than it already is.
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”

    H.L. Mencken

  18. #398
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    372

    Default

    2OUTLAW 09

    If my dialects are good they are from Russia as the border is not far from this particular point in the road.
    Nope, your "dialects" aren't good and you obviously do not know Russian, do you?
    Your blatant rejection of everything you don't like is exellent, however.

  19. #399
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    35,749

    Default

    mirhond---wow-- suddenly your English vastly improved---all that KGB/FSB/GRU training paid off did it not?

    mirhond---Well formulated English sentences---finally after all the different versions of English we seen---how many were writing the responses as I counted with this one three?

    Nope (like the fact you went American in this single word-definitely not Queens English), your "dialects" aren't good and you obviously do not know Russian, do you?
    Your blatant rejection of everything you don't like is exellent (a misspell though) , however.


    Your attempt to turn a rather mundane routine (a rather common civilian/military encounter during troop movements even in the US and say especially Germany) issue into an anti Ukrainian rant ie " the poor mistreated loyal to the Motherland Russians" need protection from the land of the "hordes" of Ukrainian Nazi's was another blatant disinformation gig was it not?---come on you can admit it.

    Noticed you threw in no further photos, "evidence", articles, or disinfomation into this response.

    By the way just how did the "poor mistreated loyal Russians wanting protection" know of the convoys whereabouts in time for them to drive to the specific point in the road and have a professional camera team available for an "accidental" filming of the alleged encounter of Ukrainian Russians being mistreated?

    My Russian is as good as your English--of course we could shift to German -but I am sure you were not taught German- you allowed yourself to be provoked---not good my friend, not good.

    Tango down--popping smoke on this conversation -----was enjoyable exchanging with the three of you.

    Again save you rubels/dollars/euors "for the hard days are a'coming".
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 03-18-2014 at 11:49 AM.

  20. #400
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Firn View Post
    I have to leave it there for now but there is some interesting stuff to add later.
    A more recent paper on the Abkhazian economy:

    B. Russian Financial Dependence

    Abkhazia’s government is overwhelmingly dependent on Russia for budget and development funds. Since 2009 Moscow has provided about 1.9 billion roubles per year in direct budgetary support ($61-$67 million, depending on exchange fluctutions). In 2012, this amounted to 22 per cent of the official 8.6 billion rouble ($287 million) budget. But taking into account that Moscow allocated another 4.9 billion roubles ($163 million) that year as part of a “comprehensive aid plan” for infrastructure development, the actual subsidy for Abkhazia’s budget is at least 70 per cent. In addition, Moscow also hands out an estimated two billion roubles ($70 million) in pension payments for Abkhaz residents, most with Russian passports.
    If we consider that example I think it is pretty likely that we see three major channels through which Russian money will flow into the Crimea:

    1) Direct financial transfers to finance the Crimean speratist budget
    2) Moscow-sponsered and cheaply financed infrastructure projects, mostly done by Russian companies
    3) Direct transfers to retirees.

    Only the first will be budgeted in, so as in the case of Abkhazia that portion alone would vastly underestimated the financial dependence.

    The “[c]omprehensive aid plan for the socio-economic development of Abkhazia” is by far the biggest source of Russian funds – but also opaque and controversial Under it, Moscow orginally earmerked eleven billion ruble ($350 million) for frastructure projects in 2010-2012, including the rebuilding of roads, schools, government buildings and agriculture. Though many residents of Abkhazia say living standards have risen as Russian money has come in, some critics complain of a dependency syndrome, and both Abkhaz and Russian officials have alleged the funds have fuelled corruption. An opposition figure known for harsh opposition to the present Abkhaz leadership lamented: “Abkhazia’s economy is like a drug addict on Russian help. We want real help to support our economic development, not ‘façade’ assistance”.
    The critical comments reflect my earlier concerns. The public sector will baloon compared to the private one, even if the multiplier will have partly a positive effect in some areas. Other parts of the private sector will be crowded out. This without taking even in consideraton the effect of the likely increased (up from bad) corruption and wrong investment allocation.

    Italy's south encountered similar problems, but form a different basis and a different set of circumstances when forty to thirty years ago the state massively 'invested' into it. Ironically quite a few described it as 'drogato' by those public funds, which went mostly into the wrong hands and greatly increased in the long run the dependence on public spending. The gdp per capita rose for a short time to roughly 80% compared to the rest of the country but fell over the next twenty+ years to back to 60% or so...

    To sum it up it the Crimean economy won't do well without getting very expensive for Russia, and in that case the long term growth doesn't look good either.
    Last edited by Firn; 03-18-2014 at 01:35 PM.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 457
    Last Post: 12-31-2015, 11:56 PM
  2. Replies: 4772
    Last Post: 06-14-2015, 04:41 PM
  3. Shot down over the Ukraine: MH17
    By JMA in forum Europe
    Replies: 253
    Last Post: 08-04-2014, 08:14 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •