Ukraine (closed; covers till August 2014)

[OUTLAW 09]

kaur---there is now a total of 12 T64RVs inside eastern Ukraine---seems those civilian trucks drivers did take the wrong turn.

Well at least they are 12 less that Russia should have destroyed under OCSE disarmament agreements which they have not done---still over 2000 to be destroyed---Russia signaled their intent to destroy three years ago but for some strange reason they were never destroyed.

Maybe three years ago they started the planning for the Crimea?

[davidbfpo]

Professor John Schindler draws attention to the appearance of 'brigades' in the Eastern Ukraine, a mix of the extreme right, nationalists and probably adventurers - surely not as they are well paid:http://20committee.com/2014/07/03/me...onal-brigades/

[kaur]

Video about OSCE hostages in Ukriane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5iTlkr3SZ4

Who are the guys in the room? There are 4 OSCE observers (who are already at home today), DNR premier Borodai (PR guy) from Moscow, Borodai's deputy Phd guy Kavtaradze from Moscow, ataman of Russian Don cossacks Kozitsyn (Юридическим адресом Войска является: 346430, Российская Федерация, Ростовская область, город Новочеркасск, ул. Московская, д.70) and some more people. What says cossacks organisation устав?

1.2. Army carries out its activities in accordance with the Constitution of the Russian Federation, the current legislation of the Russian Federation and this Charter, based on historical principles of self-government, equality and respect for members of the historical traditions of the Cossacks, and in accordance with the laws of those states, non-governmental organizations which are included in army.

1.3. The army is a legal entity with the state registration of the Statutes in accordance with established procedure, has separate property has its own balance, current and other accounts in banks, seal with its name, stamps, forms, certificates and other documents issued by the military leadership, as well as other historically formed Cossack symbols and paraphernalia used in accordance with the legislation of the Russian Federation and the traditions of the Cossacks

http://translate.google.be/translate...00%26bih%3D799

What says RF laws about taking hostages?

Federal Law "On Combating Terrorism"

international terrorist activity - terrorist activities carried out:

terrorist action - direct commission of terrorist crimes in the form of an explosion, arson, threat or use of nuclear explosive devices, radiological, chemical, biological, explosive, toxic, poisonous, virulent, poisonous substances; destruction, damage or seizure of vehicles or other objects; encroachment on a state or public figure, representative of national, ethnic, religious or other groups; hostage-taking, kidnapping;

hostage - an individual captured and (or) button in order to force the state, organization or individual to do or abstain from doing any act as a condition for releasing the held party.

http://translate.google.be/translate...00%26bih%3D799

Should those cossacks be sentenced in Russian court? That would be interesting to follow this court case

[mirhond]

Video about OSCE hostages in Ukriane.

What says cossacks organisation устав?

http://translate.google.be/translate...00%26bih%3D799

What says RF laws about taking hostages?

Should those cossacks be sentenced in Russian court? That would be interesting to follow this court case

Legalistic Fallacy. Устав войска Донского is the worhless piece of paper without any legal stature. So, if cossacks take hostages on their own behalf on the territory of ahother state they are subjects to this respectful state laws.

[kaur]

mirhond, does Russia support kidnapping international observers by Russian paramilitary unit? If no, there must be joint manhunt together with Ukrainians going on. I don't see this kind of action. Then the answer is that Russia supports kidnapping of international observers by Russian citizens. For whole month Russian citizens/cossacks had hostages. Sounds bad, but after Crimea and methods Russia used there (green gentle people turned Russian soldiers, protesting peaceful Crimeans turned tourists from Moscow etc) nothing suprises me.

If Russia is not tolerating kidnapping, then there must be joint investigation with Russia and Ukraine, to find out who gave cossacks command.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_PWyhiDUrOk

This COM document shows that Russians proved to EU that they have no problems with international CT cooperation. Lets wait the results.

http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...postcount=1516

mirhond, find the fallacy

[OUTLAW 09]

Legalistic Fallacy. Устав войска Донского is the worhless piece of paper without any legal stature. So, if cossacks take hostages on their own behalf on the territory of ahother state they are subjects to this respectful state laws.

mirhond---you have got to get rid of your hang up on using the word fallacy---actually you have a major fallacy and it is in your thinking itself.

Let's see---oh yes the OCSE observers were in fact requested by Putin to get active in the eastern Ukraine in order to support your fallacy that it is the Ukrainians who are killing civilians not Cossacks killing eastern Ukrainians--but hey that is your fallacy.

But then who has been "capturing the OCSE teams"---lets see was it the Ukrainian Army?, was it Martians?, was it those bad Ukrainian "fascists" you are always talking about?---Actually none of the above---it was those friendly proRussian freedom fighters who somehow accidently crossed that Russian "enhanced" border---but then Putin must be lying as the border was suppose to be secure so mirhond just how did they get across?

Your second fallacy is actually believing Putin really wanted the OCSE there at all--- because as they have done in their review of violations being committed in the east---- stated it is the Russian irregulars who are killing civilians not the Ukrainian Army---but hey that is your fallacy.

Another fallacy of yours is the belief you have that all those Russia T64s tanks that you "claimed" came your the Ukrainians were seen and videoed --coming from where?---again across that "enhanced and secured Russian border" so again Putin must have been lying that the border of the "motherland" is secure right?

With that secure of a border no wonder Russia has a jihadi problem--they seem to just walk across.

so mirhond when you use the word fallacy you yourself are open to the same argument---that you misuse the term all day long but then again that is what you get paid for is it not?

[OUTLAW 09]

mirhond---your "proRussian non fascist "freedom fighters" are going the wrong direction--back to Russia---is that not strange since April they have terrorizing Ukrainian citizens and robbing/plundering them as well and now when the fighting gets hard all those Cossacks are running where.

Were not all those Chechen and Cossack fighters battle hardened and military professionals?

I thought they were fighting to defend the Russian language from being destroyed by that Kiev Nazi junta and create the "New Russia"---was that not the term Putin used?---so why are they running for the Russian border?

Does that make sense in your fallacy world?

[Firn]

So almost all sources agree that Slovyansk and Kramatorsk have been liberated while I found no informations on further advances. First of all this good news for the citiziens who for the time being are able to live without getting shot by both sides and insurgents roaming houses and terrorizing parts of the population.

There is no doubt that over the last months the Ukrainian armed forces have been increasingly mobilized and prepared to fight but they also payed a considerable price in blood and material in their efforts. The opponents have been boosted by further Russian 'volunteers' and heavy weapons from Russia proper but have made little progress, if not regress at securing the support of most locals.

The big population centers, especially the Donetsk area are still de facto controlled by the insurgents and invaders so it is only a small step forward in military terms for Ukraine.