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Thread: Ukraine (closed; covers till August 2014)

  1. #321
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default The start?

    Prof. Schindler has tweeted a Russian platoon has conducted a helicopter landing near a natural gas extraction on one the narrow isthmus between the Crimea and the mainland, at Strilkove - in Ukrainian territory from Google Maps.

    Location follow:https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Str...ed=0CAkQ_AUoAQ

    Update via Reuters incursion defeated:http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2014/...l.html?hp&_r=0

    Official Ukrainian protest, which does not make it clear if incursion was defeated:http://mfa.gov.ua/en/press-center/ne...nsykij-oblasti
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 03-15-2014 at 05:39 PM. Reason: Add 2nd link
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  2. #322
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default 1854 Crimean War, 1914 July crisis and today

    Professor Christopher Clark, author of 'The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went to War in 1914', adds a commentary and a reminder that much of what is happening today has done so before:http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-958692.html

    He ends:
    The Ukrainian emergency is a reminder of how quickly events can undo the best-laid plans and produce unforeseen constellations. But all the key players in this drama appear to have grasped one thing: namely that the answers history gives to the questions of the present are multiple and conditional, not singular and absolute.
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  3. #323
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    And this...

    Sarah Palin predicted in 2008 that Putin would invade Ukraine if Obama was elected

    I kid you not




    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    McCain?

    I don't follow McCain that well but I guess you missed this back in 2008:

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?c448597...n-talks-crimea



    Pity all the 'smart guys' were not listening.

  4. #324
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    Mirhond:

    No subtlety at all. ... The language improves but the argument is still made with a wrecking ball. Fascinating.
    Another meaningless one-liner.
    What fascinates you so much? What subtlety I must have? What are you talking about?
    Bah, You are not going to explain anything to a "bad guy, mouthpiece of siloviki", do you?
    Moral superiority over an opponent is such a pleasant feeling.. problem is, it can't help you to find out whether his claims are true or false.

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Find it interesting that the leader of the Jewish community in Kiev stated recently that they have had no problems with neo right radicals and or neo Nazi's and that they the Jewish community Kiev were also fighting in the Maidan just as was the neo right.

    Really thought the use of the fear of "Nazi's" had died with Stalin. But I guess old habits of the KGB die hard.
    Provide a link please.
    As far as I remember, Jews weren't the only victims of Nazis. They started small, if you forgot: Communists, socialists, fellow Sturmabteilung. Give Ukrainian Nazis a decent time and some credit and they wont disappoint you.
    ps. KGB is irrelevant. Please, dont use the term for labeling anything you don't like.
    Last edited by mirhond; 03-15-2014 at 07:59 PM.

  5. #325
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    mirhond---have been following some of your comments and I am not sure if you even understand your own comments.

    The interview with the Kiev Jewish community leader' was carried in the Haaretz if that online Israeli newspaper is known to you. Also carried in several leading Jewish World Congress articles in the US.

    Secondly. two days ago in the German n-TV news program there was a video released showing someone jumping over a wall and spraying neo Nazi slogans and insignia on the door of their building in the Crimea--the Jewish leader there kind of laughed and said it was proRussian supporters simply based on the single fact that the neo Nazi symbol that was drawn was drawn in reverse so he knew he was not from the right interesting is it not?

    Or do you know any true Ukrainian neo Nazi's who would draw their symbol wrongly?

    Lastly, I will use the term KGB always unless you honestly think the current FSB is totally different and they did not rehire all the former KGB officers---by the way was not Putin a KGB officer in Dresden the GDR and is it not a known fact that his inner circle are all full time FSB or former KGB ?

    Am one of the few writers here who has a long history of dealing with the KGB/MfS in Berlin long before you were probably born.

    So I have earned the right to use the term KGB in the correct manner and will continue to use it when it matches their former techniques and procedures even if it is 2014 and the FSB exists as the current sword and shield of the elite---use to be the Party.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 03-15-2014 at 08:17 PM.

  6. #326
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    mirhond---have been following some of your comments and I am not sure if you even understand your own comments.

    The interview with the Kiev Jewish community leader' was carried in the Haaretz if that online Israeli newspaper is known to you. Also carried in several leading Jewish World Congress articles in the US.

    Secondly. two days ago in the German n-TV news program there was a video released showing someone jumping over a wall and spraying neo Nazi slogans and insignia on the door of their building in the Crimea--the Jewish leader there kind of laughed and said it was proRussian supporters simply based on the single fact that the neo Nazi symbol that was drawn was drawn in reverse so he knew he was not from the right interesting is it not?

    Or do you know any true Ukrainian neo Nazi's who would draw their symbol wrongly?

    Lastly, I will use the term KGB always unless you honestly think the current FSB is totally different and they did not rehire all the former KGB officers---by the way was not Putin a KGB officer in Dresden the GDR and is it not a known fact that his inner circle are all full time FSB or former KGB ?

    Am one of the few writers here who has a long history of dealing with the KGB/MfS in Berlin long before you were probably born.

    So I have earned the right to use the term KGB in the correct manner and will continue to use it when it matches their former techniques and procedures even if it is 2014 and the FSB exists as the current sword and shield of the elite---use to be the Party.
    I edit my posts a lot, believe me. It may be illegible, but not completely.

    1. You presuppose that "Haaretz" is known to me. How can you be so sure? Besides, burden of proof lies on those who made a claim, but I've made your job and found something else
    KIEV (EJP)---A rabbi in Kiev was assaulted Thursday in the street by two unidentified men in what appears to be an anti-Semitic attack.
    Rabbi Hillel Cohen, who runs the Ukrainian branch of the Hatzalah emergency services organization, was knifed in his leg and back as the attackers called him a “Zyhd” (Jew), the derogatory Russian slur for Jew and other unclear words which he said sounded like Russian, his wife was quoted say saying. “This was clearly an anti-Semitic attack,’’ she said.

    http://www.ejpress.org/index.php?opt...ticle&id=48400
    Well, you are right, Jews are spared for now, as they say.

    2. No, I'am not aquainted with any Ukrainian neo-Nazi, praize allah! \(^_^)/

    3. I fail to see how KGB is connected to fear of Nazis.

    4. Appeal to age and experience does not make false deduction true, it's just a common fallacy http://www.informationisbeautiful.ne...cal-fallacies/

    5. Stating the obvious, but irrelevant facts about Putin and his clique, also does not reinforce yoir claim (KGB somehow connected with fear of Nazis), sorry it's just not work this way.

    ps. Picture to attract attention


    translation:

    Saving yourselves is separatism!
    Carpathia - hands off our passengers!
    Titanic is one and undivided!
    Last edited by mirhond; 03-15-2014 at 09:04 PM.

  7. #327
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default The start? Update

    A Polish report on the "incursion":
    About the event informed the Ukrainian senior managers. Ukrainian operations forces helicopters allocated and elements of the battalion aeromobilnego (8 carriers BTR with landings). Russian landing "repulsed", which probably means that persuasion was sufficient to withdraw the attackers.
    Link:http://dziennikzbrojny.pl/aktualnosc...nsko-rosyjska-
    davidbfpo

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    mirhond---so let's see;

    1. you know no Ukrainian neo Nazi's? But the Russian Foreign Ministry and even Putin argues they exist or at least that was the reason given "protecting" Crimean Russians was it not? Was it not the reason given yesterday and today by the same Foreign Ministry that stated a proRussian was killed in demos in Donetsk by right wing radicals when in fact he was a right wing proUkrainian

    2. so are you then assuming that there are no neo Nazi's and neo fascists since evidently those terms have not been used by anyone in the current Russian government-right or do you have examples of them not using those words?

    3. all previously known facts about Putin as a former KGB officer is what irrelevant as well as what the current FSB is irrelevant in the large ongoing disinformation campaign which I will be more than willing to show you how it works when a specific article was lanced today

    4. your example of the attacked Jew---was he attacked by a Russian swearing neo right wing Ukrainian or a Russian swearing Russian Ukrainian or a what "ethnic Russian speaking Russian from where Russia---so which was it?

    5. glad to see you read Haaretz at least it is left wing and not neo nazi

    6. age and experience tends to give one a far more balanced opinion vs those that are not so experienced and aged---that is not a fallacy but rather a simple fact of life especially when one speaks of the SU days---spent time in the SU in 1973 where were you?

    7. so the constant comments coming out of Putin, the Russian Foreign Ministry, the Russian UN Ambassador and the Russian Foreign Minster concerning neo rightists, right wing radicals and yes the term Nazi is not something that was say common standard vocabulary for the Communist Party and yes even the KGB since Stalin's days?

    8. so is it irrelevant that the same individuals above call the current Ukrainian government illegal and yet the current Crimean government rep (who originally had only four votes in the Crimean parliament) was "elected" legally when the representatives of the 40% of the other minorities in the Crimea were not allowed to vote and there were armed personnel inside the building doing what "protecting" them from neo Nazi's who were no where to be seen

    9. so the use of the word terrorists by Russians means what, jihadi's, neo right radicals or neo Nazi's?

    The Russians said they had seized the pumping station out of fears it would be targeted by “terrorists,” according to a Ukrainian Defense Ministry official who declined to be named. (What they are afraid of is the Ukrainians actually turning off the gas to the Crimea which they can do when everyone there becomes Russian not Ukrainians---why would they keep delivering gas they have to pay Gazprom for when Russia can provide the gas for free when annexed.)

    So in the end you I suppose you support the annexation of the Crimea to Russia instead of say returning it the Tartars who were slaughtered in the gulags as they were accused of being Nazi's by Stalin and then "allowed" to return who also speak Russian, but have not been mentioned by Putin as the main reason for "protecting" ethnic Russians. So I guess in the end Putin and the Russian Foreign Ministry is what "racist" because Russian speaking Tartars are not what "real" Russians"?
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 03-15-2014 at 10:02 PM.

  9. #329
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Mirhond:

    Two posts already today. But then it's Saturday. No school. Of course that's here in the States. Maybe in Russia they have school on Saturday. If they do I hope you aren't cutting class.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  10. #330
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    mirhond---so let's see;

    1. you know no Ukrainian neo Nazi's? But the Russian Foreign Ministry and even Putin argues they exist or at least that was the reason given "protecting" Crimean Russians was it not? Was it not the reason given yesterday and today by the same Foreign Ministry that a proRussian was killed in demos in Donetsk by right wing radicals when in fact he was a right wing proUkrainian

    2. so are you then assuming that there are no neo Nazi's and neo fascists since evidently those terms have not been used by anyone in the current Russian government?

    3. all previously known facts about Putin as a former KGB officer is what irrelevant as well as what the current FSB is irrelevant in the large ongoing disinformation campaign which I will be more than willing to show you how it works when a specific article was lanced today

    4. your example of the attacked Jew---was he attacked by a Russian swearing neo right wing Ukrainian or a Russian swearing Russian Ukrainian or a what "ethnic Russian speaking Russian from where Russia---so which was it?

    5. glad to see you read Haaretz at least it is left wing and not neo nazi

    6. age and experience tends to give one a far more balanced opinion vs those that are not so experienced and aged---that is not a fallacy but rather a simple fact of life especially when one speaks of the SU days---spent time in the SU in 1973 where were you?

    7. so the constant comments coming out of Putin, the Russian Foreign Ministry, the Russian UN Ambassador and the Russian Foreign Minster concerning neo rightists, right wing radicals and yes the term Nazi is not something that was say common standard vocabulary for the Communist Party and yes even the KGB since Stalin's days?

    8. so is it irrelevant that the same individuals above call the current Ukrainian government illegal and yet the current Crimean government rep (who originally had only four votes in the Crimean parliament) was "elected" legally when the representatives of the 40% of the other minorities in the Crimea were not allowed to vote and there were armed personnel inside the building doing what "protecting" them from neo Nazi's who wee no where to be seen

    So in the end you I suppose you support the annexation of the Crimea to Russia instead of say returning it the Tartars who were slaughtered in the gulags as they were accused of being nazi's by Stalin and then "allowed" to return who also speak Russian but have not been mentioned by Putin as the main reason for "protecting" ethnic Russians.
    1.,2. I can swear on every holy scriptures in the world that I personally do not now any neo-Nazi character, if that is your qiestion. Why should I? But I suppose you are asking whether am I familliar with all this propaganda in Russian media? No, thanks, I'am fed up with this bull$hit. All I know there are real neo-Nazis now gaining some political ground in Kiev.

    3. Hey, you are evading the subject - you have to show how KGB/FSB/Putin is connected to fear of Nazis. I personally kinda nervous about the whole concept of Nazism because I've learned from history that these guys surely wont give me, Slavic Untermensch, a candy. Well, if you blame KGB/FSB/Putin for my petty fear - you are far far away from truth.

    4. I don't know and I don't care.

    5. Actually I know this paper, I just cant stand the temptation to show you the unprobable claim of yours.

    6. Сдается мне, что вы советский еврей, обиженный на "тюрьму народов". Понимаю, но не принимаю. Well, if "balanced opinion" means probabilistic opinion - you are right about age and experience, but beware! There is a Middle Ground Fallacy, which lures unprepared mind into a position equally away from Truth and False!

    7. merges with 3. All these officials may be jerks, but dont blame them, blame history for widespread hatred, cherished in Russia, towards anything labeled "Nazism".

    8. 60% is a majority, yes? Voila, "democracy" at work!
    Crimea belonged to Tatars? Wow, you are digging deep into history. May be hand it back to Goths, or even Greeks. then? Anyway, I don't care - another adventure of Putin & Co. does not affect me much. Of cause I'd like to see "polite troops" invading Vologodskaya, Tul'skaya or Bryanskaya Oblast', or any other struggling and depressive region of Russia, bringing along order, security and money, but I'am not Putin's political advisor. This guy wont give a $hit, either.

    9. In Russian term "terrorist" says nothing about political platform, in English, I suppose, too.

    ps. Putin& Co stole my country and I wish all of them painful and gruesome death. Dixi.

    @carl You are pathetic, really.
    Last edited by mirhond; 03-15-2014 at 10:58 PM.

  11. #331
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    Mirhond:

    That's what my basketball coach used to say about me. It is what my girlfriend says about me now.

    You guys should get together and go back over all your posts so you can keep your stories straight. When you switch off writers it is probably too difficult match the quality of the writing and style, but it shouldn't be that hard to keep your positions consistent. Putin good in one post, Putin bad in another. Bad form boys, bad form.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  12. #332
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    Mirhond:

    That's what my basketball coach used to say about me. It is what my girlfriend says about me now.
    Well, they are right. But are not completely lost to rational thinking, at least you have a girlfriend, it means you can communicate Try to attack my argument, not my "multiple" personality.

    ps. Enjoy the rule of "street law" in Kiev


    I believe these Sturmabteilung/Nazi will fascinate you. (Armbands are the hint)
    Last edited by mirhond; 03-16-2014 at 10:08 AM.

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    mirhond---noticed you failed to answer point four of my previous response after you yourself listed the quoted article concerning the attacked Jewish Ukrainian.

    So again who was behind the attack on the individual ---Russian speaking Ukrainians, Russian speaking Russian Ukrainians or actual Russia speaking Russians from Russia? From what you posted one would think that you are Ukrainian proRussian or even live in Russia.

    Secondly, you are right you have truly multiple personalities so which is your actual persona when you write---anyone can sit back and write anything but what is your actual opinion because from your writings I am not so sure you even know---writing words anyone can do?

    Thirdly--you actually have no arguments to attack that I can see from the rambling comments and photos.

    Lastly, when you list photos it does help to have the date/time stamp on the photo itself because from the world I come from without that the photo is propaganda and says nothing---nothing more nothing less. By the way red arm bands can be worn by Ukrainians, Russian Ukrainians and yes even the KGB so your comment means nothing.

    See---from the photo I could argue that the individuals are Russians from imported Russian cities or they are Russian Ukrainians for that matter Ukrainians or even Poles. And when was the photo taken in 1995, 2004, 2007 or say 2014 and where was it taken, Kiev or Donetsk or for that matter in the Crimea or heaven forbid photographed in Russia as there is no identifying point to say where the photo was taken-heck it could have been staged in Hollywood for that matter--come on.

    Heck from the photos it could have been even the Ukrainian riot police from say 2010 as it appears not to be a road checkpoint, in fact it looks like a search of an illegal construction site somewhere in Russia---what/where did you think it was?

    mirhond---get real when you write---propaganda is cheap.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 03-16-2014 at 11:20 AM.

  14. #334
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    mirhond---do you ever really read your own quoted articles?

    Again reread your own quoted article---no wonder you did not answer my point four. Ranting is easy --defending one's own views really hard to do well if they are not your views.

    mirhond---by the way your style, mimicking poor English abilities, poor use of photos as an argument and not reading your own quoted article (mis use of quoted material)supporting in theory your view leads me to believe what ---KGB/FSB or GRU? Why---you failed to ask me to show you a very specific lanced KGB/FSB article from yesterday which is a perfect depiction of their I/O operations that are currently going on in support of Putin.

    Ira Forman, the US special envoy on anti-Semitism, dismissed Russian President Putin's claims that Ukrainian revolutionaries were Jew-haters.
    "We have no indication that what President Putin has been saying about anti-Semitism has been a true reflection of what's happening on the ground," he said.

    Ukraine is home of around 200,000 Jews and many are reported to have actively supported the revolution.

    Putin has said that Russia's biggest concern was "the rampage of reactionary forces, nationalist and anti-Semitic forces going on in certain parts of Ukraine, including Kiev".

    However, earlier this week, a leading Ukrainian rabbi said he saw no sign of hostility toward Jews from nationalists involved in last month's uprising but was cautious on whether there could be a rise in anti-Semitic threats.

    Moshe Reuven Azman, a Chief Rabbi in Ukraine, told a press conference he was not aware of newanti-Semitic acts since Yanukovich's fall and had not heard anti-Jewish statements from leaders of extreme-right parties. He cautioned against speculation on the issue being "exploited" for political ends.

    "There's no big, general Ukrainian problem," Azman said, playing down some instances of Jews being attacked in the street and the firebombing of a provincial synagogue during the past few months of protests. He contrasted post-Soviet Ukraine's tolerance with "official anti-Semitism" in Soviet times.

    Of newly prominent movements like the paramilitary Right Sector, active in fighting police last month, he said: "I make a distinction between nationalism and Nazism. With nationalism, you love your own people. Nazism is when you hate others.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 03-16-2014 at 11:50 AM.

  15. #335
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    Firn---does not pulling your funds back to your own country actually short and long cut into your money as money especially large amounts are generally designed to earn more money not sit in a bank inside Russia---and then to pay demands-- costs more as you then need to pay transfer fees out of Russia so in effect the cost of doing business generally rockets for large amounts.

    Also have you seen any movement of funds out of their sovereign funds?

    Europe is waiting for the Rubel/their stock market blood bath tomorrow--maybe that is why a lot came home as well.

    The move by the Russia Army to secure a pumping station tells me they are highly concerned the Ukraine will turn off the gas to the Crimea which is largely dependent on deliveries from the Ukraine.

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    mirhond---you failed to answer my question on the use of the term Nazi by the SU Communist Party, KGB/FSB/GRU and Putin as it seems to me to be still alive and well all these years after Stalin's death.

    Check out this social media official Crimea sign using the term Nazi's ---so come on mirhond who do you work for?


    https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/sta...722688/photo/1

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    mirhond---check this form of democratic ballot stuffing by the "legal" Crimean government.

    Right out of the KGB/FSB playbook and I guess it supports Putin's many statements of misbehaving Ukrainians threatening poor ethnic Russians.

    Thousand of pre-stamped ballots which just need to be counted---you do not need voters. No wonder that 99.9% will be achieved even with a voting blockade by 40% of minorities..

    Now with the upcoming Ukrainian new governmental elections the proRussia party will be short 1.5M voters

    https://twitter.com/MannfredNikolai/.../photo/1/large
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 03-16-2014 at 04:44 PM.

  18. #338
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    @OUTLAW 09

    mirhond---noticed you failed to answer point four of my previous response after you yourself listed the quoted article concerning the attacked Jewish Ukrainian.

    So again who was behind the attack on the individual ---Russian speaking Ukrainians, Russian speaking Russian Ukrainians or actual Russia speaking Russians from Russia? From what you posted one would think that you are Ukrainian proRussian or even live in Russia.
    You don't pay too much attention while reading, do you?
    here is my answer from previous post

    4. I don't know and I don't care.
    Secondly, you are right you have truly multiple personalities so which is your actual persona when you write
    Aww, another admirer of my magnificient multyperson, how sweet!

    Why---you failed to ask me to show you a very specific lanced KGB/FSB article from yesterday which is a perfect depiction of their I/O operations that are currently going on in support of Putin.
    Why should I ask? I owe you nothing. But if you insist, OK, please give me a link on your article.

    Thirdly--you actually have no arguments to attack that I can see from the rambling comments and photos.
    Really? Not even a single argument? Well, I think now its a Straw Man Fallacy, but OK, I'll do your job again:
    So, Putin just spared two million people from civil war?
    You may try to falsify this argument, for instance.

    Lastly, when you list photos it does help to have the date/time stamp on the photo itself because from the world I come from without that the photo is propaganda and says nothing---nothing more nothing less. By the way red arm bands can be worn by Ukrainians, Russian Ukrainians and yes even the KGB so your comment means nothing.
    Guys on the photo wear armbands of "Right Sector" - now legal Sturmabteilung.
    You have had a traumatic experience with KGB, I suppose. Tough luck and pity that you still bear this burden. Can't help you with imaginary KGB agents stalking you everewhere.

    -you failed to answer my question on the use of the term Nazi by the SU Communist Party, KGB/FSB/GRU and Putin as it seems to me to be still alive and well all these years after Stalin's death.
    Careless reading again?
    here is my answer from previous post
    you have to show how KGB/FSB/Putin is connected to fear of Nazis. I personally kinda nervous about the whole concept of Nazism because I've learned from history that these guys surely wont give me, Slavic Untermensch, a candy. Well, if you blame KGB/FSB/Putin for my petty fear - you are far far away from truth.
    Of newly prominent movements like the paramilitary Right Sector, active in fighting police last month, he said: "I make a distinction between nationalism and Nazism. With nationalism, you love your own people. Nazism is when you hate others.
    O, sancta simplicitas! You belive everything these Sturmabteilung-wannabe say? OK, Right Sector is eclectic and not fiercely nationalistic, but they are not alone, there is Nazi-wannabe "Svoboda" running around. Lets make a glance at theirs documents http://www.svoboda.org.ua/dopysy/dopysy/013214/

    Націоналізм як політична ідеологія означає вищу цінність нації як вічної кровно-духовної спільноти. Сьогодні український націоналізм постає у формі соціального націоналізму та ставить собі за мету соціальну та національну революцію в Україні, докорінну зміну політичного, економічного, етичного ладу. Соціал-націоналізм вимагає демонтажу ліберального режиму антинаціональної окупації, ліквідації олігархічного капіталізму, знищення етичної системи антинародного егоїзму та декадансу. Натомість соціал-націоналізм збудує націократичний політичний режим, соціально-справедливу та підпорядковану волі нації економіку, а також запровадить нову революційну націоналістичну етику.
    Translation: I apologise in advance for for inconveniences

    Nationalism as political ideology means the utmost value of the nation as eternal cohesion in blood and spirit. Current Ukrainian nationalism is a form of social nationalism and it's goal is a national revolution in Ukraine and complete transformation of political, economic and ethic fabric of society.
    Social nationalism means deconstruction of antinational liberal occupational regime, elimination of oligarchical capitalism and cessation of antinational ethical egoism and decadance. Instead, social nationalism will bring nation-oriented political regime, just and controlled economy andnew revolutionary nationalistic ethic.
    Sounds familiar, isn't it? Well, you may say I'am playing a Hitler Card, yes I do, but in this case its not a fallacy.

    There are TONS of food there, but I'am exausted. Take the trouble of finding it yourself.

    @Firn

    I asked the same poster twice for sources and arguments to make his case but he didn't deliver.
    If you explain what case exactly I must deliver, I'll try.
    If you want me to bring MOAR bull$it from Russian media for you to righteuosly squish it - I'll not do that.
    If you want some alternative opinion from Russian and Ukrainian-speaking sources - I can do that, but think twice whether you really want it.

    upd. Another video with kawaii Hitlerjugend from Western Ukraine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go4Wwjuzm-s

    Translation from 2:12

    "One Language, one Nation, one Fatherland - this is Ukraine!" "Hang the Muscowite!"

    Again sounds familliar? "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer" well, they have no decent Furher yet, but as i've said before, give them some time and money and they'll not dissapoint you.
    Last edited by mirhond; 03-16-2014 at 05:32 PM.

  19. #339
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    Default Carl: Take care ...

    They're going to multiply on you:



    Regards

    Mike

  20. #340
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default (Pre-crisis) Crime and politics in Crimea

    A background article, that starts with:
    Western media are widely reporting that self-declared Crimean leader Sergei Aksyonov was an organised crime boss in the 1990s, with the nickname ‘Goblin.’ The link between crime and politics in Crimea seems to have caught Western media off guard, and yet abundant evidence of such links has been available for a long time from a variety of sources, including US diplomatic cables.
    Link:http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russ...kileaks-Cables
    davidbfpo

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