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Thread: Ukraine (closed; covers till August 2014)

  1. #341
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Check out this social media official Crimea sign using the term Nazi's ---so come on mirhond who do you work for?

    check this form of democratic ballot stuffing by the "legal" Crimean government. ...Thousand of pre-stamped ballots which just need to be counted
    1. I have checked, and already answered - we have knee-jerk negative reaction on anything labeled as Fascism/Nazism, consider it a backdoor to Soviet collective uncousiousness. I fail to understand why you so surprised. You haven't heard about WWII may be?

    2. You use some kind of alternative logic? By Zeus, how you deducted that all these ballots are pre-stumped? From the one ballot sticked to a batch of ballots? May gods have mercy on you. I f you don't understand I'll explain - the presence of ONE pre-stumped ballot sticked to the batch of ballots does not NESSESARILY means that ALL ballots in a batch are pre-stumped. Is it so hard to understand?

    @jmm99 I see the ranks of admirers of my magnificient multiperson are growing. Will I get minions and servants or even a personalised mural on the site homepage?
    Last edited by mirhond; 03-16-2014 at 06:59 PM.

  2. #342
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Firn---does not pulling your funds back to your own country actually short and long cut into your money as money especially large amounts are generally designed to earn more money not sit in a bank inside Russia---and then to pay demands-- costs more as you then need to pay transfer fees out of Russia so in effect the cost of doing business generally rockets for large amounts.

    Also have you seen any movement of funds out of their sovereign funds?

    Europe is waiting for the Rubel/their stock market blood bath tomorrow--maybe that is why a lot came home as well.
    You make a key point. One of the most basic fundamentals is the trade-off between liquidity and return. The potential danger of a asset freeze and possibly the Russian state's demand for foreign currency has likely caused the capital pull. Under crisis conditions liquidity becomes king as the bank might get squeezed from two sides. Freezing a banks asset can bust it pretty quickly.

    Overall the decision of those Russia companies makes it of course harder for them to do business in Europe and the US. Even without sanctions their integration into the Western capital markets looks threatened.


    P.S: An interesting follow-up would be to see what happens to the two international subsidaries of Sberbank. Will they have enough liquidity and equity to handle themselves in a potentially hostile environment?

    Even without sanctions I would understand a costumer to turn up rather sooner then later to shift out his deposits....
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

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    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  3. #343
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    Default Of course;

    if you're a good girl, I give you this:



    If you're a bad girl, I give you Detroit.

    Regards

    Mike

  4. #344
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    mirhond---your English has vastly improved now try German--- reference the use by Communists, Putin, and the KGB of the term fascists or some Communists even interchange the term with say Nazi.

    Der Vorwurf des Faschismus gehrt zur klassischen russischen Propaganda. So rechtfertigt Moskau seit Jahrzehnten seine Militraktionen wie nun auch in der Ukraine.

    So mirhond living like the days of say 1973 with rancid butter sold to you by the EU, using a steel pick to see which loaf of bread was as hard as a rock, cold apartments heated with even poorer brown coal, and waiting in line for hours only to be told that what ever it was is gone and now going back to that is what Progress?

    So the Crimea and the dreams of the old SU are worth what--rancid butter come on mirhond this is the 21st century not the 1919 Revolution days.

    So it appears you are basically agreeing below that is better to suffer conditions that might make Russians enjoy living in say Zambia which based on your comments has a better standard of living unless one is an oligarch, or a member of the Russian Mafia a former Communist or Putin.

    "Poor us.
    You are still deliberately ignoring the fact that we have lived with ####ed-up economy for 15 years. Almost everyone out there understand that all this burgeous pleasantries are temporary, almost everyone either have Plan B if things become hairy, or just don't care about future. We are tempered with endless economic fails, inferior governance and suffocating aura of lies. Even the food, water and electricity rationing won't destroy this system."

    What will destroy the system as you mentioned is in fact just why Putin made his moves in the Ukraine---namely "the Street".

    And if your English is as good as I know it is then you understand the term "the Street".

    Let's see---a Ukraine taught Communism for say 45 years, a Ukraine that answered to the KGB for 45 years, a Ukraine that has the same oligarch system as Russia has, a Ukraine where the last President was hand picked by Russia/Putin and a Ukraine that was being bleed economically dry for Russia DID WHAT ---it kicked out a corrupt dictator and surprised WHO in the end--- Putin.

    mirhond ---I forgot it was the last Ukrainian President was it not who packed his trucks full of money and fled like a what? to Russia did he not? Noticed you failed to mention that Putin in a recent comment even critiqued him as a poor leader did he not?

    Ranting, raving and filling paper with words does not make a writer---- is an old Russian saying---the KGB saying is that it makes one a terrorist.

    But then I know you know the KGB/FSB well do you not?

    Come on dude get real.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 03-16-2014 at 10:17 PM.

  5. #345
    Council Member AmericanPride's Avatar
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    And while Washington and Brussels debate sanctions and protest in the United Nations, Moscow continues with its plan to secure Crimea from Ukraine. Russia is not going to budge. Russia's decisive and rapid use of hard power overcame many years and millions of dollars of soft power invested by the United States. With the political situation in the country, is Ukraine any more likely to join NATO or the EU as it was before the fall of Yanukovych's government? I doubt it. And now the country is facing economic crisis and a significant military threat to its territorial integrity. Though I'm skeptical, this event should encourage us to reexamine the basic assumptions of our foreign policy.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

  6. #346
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    mirhond---I know you know this old Stalin/KGB saying;

    "One person is a demonstration, Two people a riot and Three people a revolution"

    So will the long line at your bank exchanging Rubels for USDs/Euros today be a demonstration, a riot or a revolution? What Progress?

    By the way you forgot to mention that those that have a red banner on their arms could also be the old Guard Soviet auxiliary police---so they could have been communists right as their was nothing else in the photo to identify.

    Have enjoyed your KGB propaganda---keep sending the articles and photos and your comments as it is easier to indicate where one is misleading.

    Enjoy the waiting in line at your bank for the coming weeks--
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 03-17-2014 at 06:50 AM.

  7. #347
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanPride View Post
    And while Washington and Brussels debate sanctions and protest in the United Nations, Moscow continues with its plan to secure Crimea from Ukraine. Russia is not going to budge. Russia's decisive and rapid use of hard power overcame many years and millions of dollars of soft power invested by the United States. With the political situation in the country, is Ukraine any more likely to join NATO or the EU as it was before the fall of Yanukovych's government? I doubt it. And now the country is facing economic crisis and a significant military threat to its territorial integrity. Though I'm skeptical, this event should encourage us to reexamine the basic assumptions of our foreign policy.
    Maybe. I think the more important question is if Ukraine and Poland are going to reexamine theirs.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  8. #348
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Mirhond, me fine young fellows. I've only been gone a few hours and I see you have given up. You've gone from trying to convince us to simple name calling and bluster. Come on guy, you let a bunch of old men beat you. You gotta do better than that. I know that defending the siloviki is an almost impossible task but you can do better. Come on boys! Give it a go.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  9. #349
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    Again Americans. Now with their 2 UAV shot down in Crimea. All news in Russian. Sorry. Newsru finds info from Rosteh site, who blames Warsonline, which cites Anaga (who has heard about this site? Like Indian Patriot newspaper in the AIDS case?).

    Newsru http://www.newsru.com/world/14mar2014/nopilotnik.html

    Rosteh http://rostec.ru/news/4416

    http://warsonline.info/ukraine/ameri...ad-krimom.html

    http://www.anaga.ru/sbit-mq-5b.html

    Warsonline cites also to Crimean News. Local self defence forces (cover name for Russian units) and police unit Berkut saw first UAV and destroyed it.

    http://warsonline.info/ukraine/nad-k...pom-sbiti-dva-

    http://komtv.org/21582-v-krymu-sbili...j-bespilotnik/

    Americans deny all.

    http://www.ibtimes.com/pentagon-russ...e-false-156157

  10. #350
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    if you're a good girl, I give you this:

    Regards

    Mike
    Aww, Potyomkin's willage, thanks. Provided that you are good at history, I suppose you use the term ironically, because Potyomkin's willages were actual willages, not just empty carcasses with fancy frontfaces, and the term itself was invented to frame Potyomkin.

    @OUTLAW 09

    So mirhond living like the days of say 1973 with rancid butter sold to you by the EU, using a steel pick to see which loaf of bread was as hard as a rock, cold apartments heated with even poorer brown coal, and waiting in line for hours only to be told that what ever it was is gone and now going back to that is what Progress?
    Slippery Slope Fallacy http://www.fallacyfiles.org/slipslop.html
    None of these terrrible things happened, yet.


    What will destroy the system as you mentioned is in fact just why Putin made his moves in the Ukraine---namely "the Street".
    I prefer marxist term "masses", besides "the Street" is useless against Putin &Co. I participated in 2011 winter protests, so when I came closer to a line of internal security troops, I discovered some dead-eyed guys who will spray the crowd with automatic gunfire without second thought. So, I'am quit. That's why "The Street" has nothing to do with current regime. Old-skool popular revolution has.

    So it appears you are basically agreeing below that is better to suffer conditions that might make Russians enjoy living in say Zambia
    I can't say for every Russian, but I, personally, would rather be mizerable, opressed but alive than free but dead.

    Let's see---a Ukraine taught Communism for say 45 years
    I've just made a historical discover! As far as I know, Ukraine was de-facto part of USSR from the wery beginning at 1922.

    Ranting, raving and filling paper with words does not make a writer---- is an old Russian saying---the KGB saying is that it makes one a terrorist.
    Ad Hominem Fallacy http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adhomine.html
    Again, try to attack my argument, not my personality.

    Enjoy the waiting in line at your bank for the coming weeks--
    Appeal to Consequence of Belief Fallacy http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adconseq.html

    Besides, my bank account is empty, I live from paycheck to paycheck, I have it in cash and I always pay cash. Banking may go to hell

    I know you know this old Stalin/KGB saying;
    "One person is a demonstration, Two people a riot and Three people a revolution"
    No, never heard this. Provide a source, please.

    By the way you forgot to mention that those that have a red banner on their arms could also be the old Guard Soviet auxiliary police
    Who have a red banner? Are you talking about the photo with Sturmabteilung or about the video with Hitlerjugend? If I missed something, please, correct me.

    carl, do you even understand what fallacy is? You are the native English-speaker, you must know the term.
    Please, read the http://www.fallacyfiles.org/whatarff.html it will discipline your mind, improve your thinking, reasoning and arguing skills. Or start from fighting cognitive biaseshttp://www.overcomingbias.com/about at least you will be aware of it. Learn from Firn - his statements usually probabilistic, it means he is a good rationalist.
    Last edited by mirhond; 03-17-2014 at 10:39 AM.

  11. #351
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    Mirhond,

    How long do you think people should have lived in an area - such as Crimea - before they can vote in such a referendum?

  12. #352
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    Mirhond,

    How long do you think people should have lived in an area - such as Crimea - before they can vote in such a referendum?
    I have no idea, too much hidden variables. What's the common practice? Provided that a person has a legal residential status - no less than five years, I believe.
    Last edited by mirhond; 03-17-2014 at 10:37 AM.

  13. #353
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    OK, sounds good.

    Now should that person be a citizen of that country or can any passport holder from a neighbouring country arrive and vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    I have no idea, too much hidden variables. What's the common practice? Provided that a person has a legal residential status - no less than five years, I believe.

  14. #354
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    OK, sounds good.
    Now should that person be a citizen of that country or can any passport holder from a neighbouring country arrive and vote?
    Who's passport holder at the first plase in this particular case? Non-resident, tourist, visitor? Or a compatriot who just lives abroad for a long time? Give a narrow definition, please.
    Last edited by mirhond; 03-17-2014 at 10:55 AM.

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    1600 GMT: While Russia is presenting the referendum today as a move to save the region from neo-Nazis, a large number of the ‘independent observers’ spotted monitoring the vote today come from Europe’s extreme right.

    A sample of the far right figures here includes:

    Bela Kovacs – a Hungarian MEP for the neo-Nazi Jobbik party.

    Aymeric Chauprade – a nationalist, pro-Russian political theorist and member of France’s far-right Front National, whose leader, Marine Le Pen has supported Russia’s stance on Ukraine and condemned “extremists” in the Maidan movement.

    Frank Creyelman – a Belgian MEP for the far-right Vlaams Belang party (formerly Vlaams Blok).

    Ewald Johann Stadler – an MEP in the late Jörg Haider’s Bündnis Zukunft Österreich (Alliance for the Future of Austria).

    Luc Michel – active with various neo-nazi groups in Belgium and is a supporter of Eduard Limonov’s National Bolshevik party.

    Others include communists or those with nostalgic sympathies for the Soviet Union such as Angourakis and Al-Sabty, or those with extremely close ties to United Russia such as Johan Bäckman. Bäckman is a finish Finnish political activist who has been involved with pro-Russian actions in both Finland and Estonia, including involvement with Nashi activity.

    http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrain...eferendum-day/
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #356
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    mirhond---if you did not know this common former Communist saying then you were born what after say 1995---even your parents still know it---come on dude---it is still the internal saying for the KGB/MoI riot police today in Moscow in the 21st century

    I know you know this old Stalin/KGB saying;
    "One person is a demonstration, Two people a riot and Three people a revolution"

    Secondly, you are right if you were born after say 1995 you would have never seen the red arm bans of the soviet auxiliary police who were communist party members.

    Cannot fault you for not knowing what you do not know but then again you seen to not be so well informed of what is going on inside of your own country.

  17. #357
    Council Member Dayuhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    Give a narrow definition, please.
    Citizen: a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”

    H.L. Mencken

  18. #358
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    kaur---the UAV shoot down reports are manufactured KGB/FSB disinformation for several reasons;

    The UAV named by the Russian private electronic warfare company Rostec indicated that it was a Hunter UAV which is a larger version of the Shadow which allows for great loiter time---using their own designation the following are questions they did not answer.

    1. just what is a Russian private company doing working in the Crimea together with Russian troops
    2. the range of the Hunter is 125 miles and even with a strong tail wind out of Bavaria where they claimed it was launched it would have not even come close to be over the Crimea
    3. the US Army unit mentioned is based in Darmstadt and has no Hunters assigned to it
    4. the Hunter could have been launched by a US Navy ship but there is only one destroy in the immediate area of the Crimea and it carries no Hunters
    5. if this UAV is jammed as Rostec claimed and receives no ground signal it goes into a recovery loiter mode which is pre programed prior to start for another area other than what it is flying over then if jammed it goes into the recover to loiter area mode---if it then runs out of fuel during loiter mode a parachute deploys lowering it to the ground.

    So all in all the story has no legs and is a blatant misinformation effort by the KGB/FSB.

  19. #359
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    kaur---you bring up a good point about the observers---many were from EU communist/left parties even out of Germany and a lot were neo rightist/separatists and neo Nazi's WHY would be the question after the Russian FM, the Foreign Ministry, and Putin and the Russian propaganda machine beats up daily on Ukrainian because they are neo radials/right wing Nazi's.

    Answer is rather simple but overlooked--they come from parties that are seen as separatists in their own countries thus lending credibility to the separatists in the Crimea----sometime communists and Putin is one never seem to change the color of their beliefs.

    If one looks at a circle of violence going from right to left at some point on that circle both cross each other in their desires (to take over the State by discrediting it) and wants then they move on to violence both left and right.

  20. #360
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    mirhond---now tell me the former KGB/Putin does not "rule" Russia and Putin does not have a KGB "history" and do not tell me his inner circle is not KGB.

    18 Sep 2007

    Siloviki take reins in post-oligarchy era


    Russia's "siloviki" - the network of former and current state-security officers - maintain an unprecedented level of control over political and economic life, and are likely to consolidate that power in the upcoming elections. From RFE/RL.

    By Victor Yasmann for Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The hubbub surrounding Russia's upcoming Duma elections in December and the March 2008 presidential election swung into high gear this month, but the key question is not whether the country will take a new direction but rather how will the status quo, the existing arrangement of political forces, be maintained.
    Virtually all key positions in Russian political life - in government and the economy - are controlled by the so-called "siloviki," a blanket term to describe the network of former and current state-security officers with personal ties to the Soviet-era KGB and its successor agencies.

    The unexpected replacement of former Prime Minister Mikhail Fradkov by former Federal Financial Monitoring Service Director Viktor Zubkov is the latest consolidation of this group's grip on power in Russia. Although Zubkov is not an intelligence officer by background, he has become one de facto during his years at the Financial Monitoring Service, and he has intimate knowledge of where the country's legal and illegal assets are to be found.

    The core of the siloviki group, led by former KGB officer and Federal Security Service (FSB) Director Vladimir Putin himself, comprises about 6,000 security-service alumni who entered the corridors of power during Putin's first term. Now, as Putin's second term winds down, their clout is virtually unassailable. Their locus of power is in the presidential administration: deputy chief of staff Igor Sechin cut his teeth in the KGB's First Main Directorate, which oversaw foreign intelligence operations and has since been transformed into the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR). Fellow deputy chief of staff Viktor Ivanov worked for the KGB's main successor organization, the FSB, which is responsible for counterintelligence operations.

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