Ukraine (closed; covers till August 2014)

[Ulenspiegel]

And give Germany access to nuclear weapons? You can't be serious.

Try to understand the concept of latent nuclear powers and try to understand the reasons why these latent powers have not become actual nuclear powers.

[JMA]

Try to understand the concept of latent nuclear powers and try to understand the reasons why these latent powers have not become actual nuclear powers.

... and why they may need to obtain weapons for use at their own discretion and how long it would take have the weapons and delivery systems in place and operationally ready?

[carl]

... and why they may need to obtain weapons for use at their own discretion and how long it would take have the weapons and delivery systems in place and operationally ready?

Delivery systems they could have ready by next week. Just convert an old fighter like a MiG-23 or a Viggen into a drone and mount the nuke on it. Program it to head for Moscow and rig the fuse to go off on target or anytime the aircraft flight path is disturbed after crossing the Russian border. That way it wouldn't matter if Russian air defense shot it down or not, a nuke would still go off in Russia.

And it would probaly take the Swedes only a few years to deploy a submarine based cruise missile deterrent.

[JMA]

Russia would know how long it would take and could plan accordingly.

Still don't blame them for arming themselves as the US nuclear umbrella is unreliable.

Delivery systems they could have ready by next week. Just convert an old fighter like a MiG-23 or a Viggen into a drone and mount the nuke on it. Program it to head for Moscow and rig the fuse to go off on target or anytime the aircraft flight path is disturbed after crossing the Russian border. That way it wouldn't matter if Russian air defense shot it down or not, a nuke would still go off in Russia.

And it would probaly take the Swedes only a few years to deploy a submarine based cruise missile deterrent.

[kaur]

Stan:

These organizations, according to the IS, aim to promote three messages:
1) Estonia supports Nazism
2) Russian-speaking people are discriminated against in Estonia en masse
3) Estonia is a dead-end state that only causes problems for its Western partners

From Putin's answers about Ukraine two days ago.

1) Nationalism and even neo-Nazism are experiencing a resurgence in western Ukraine.

2) People in eastern and southeastern regions of Ukraine were worried about their future and the future of their children, because they saw a rapid growth of nationalist sentiments, heard threats and saw that [the new authorities] wanted to invalidate some of the ethnic minorities’ rights, including the rights of the Russian minority. On the other hand, this description is relative, because Russians are native persons in Ukraine. But an attempt was made to invalidate all decisions regarding the use of the native language. This alarmed people, of course. What happened next?

3) But you know well the history of this territory (Ukraine) and its people. Some of these territories were part of Czechoslovakia, some of Hungary, some of Austro-Hungary and some of Poland, where they were never full-fledged citizens. You know, something has always been growing in their heart of hearts.

Some people seem to believe that it is this circumstance – because these territories were former possessions of several present-day EU countries – that imbues them with some special European substance. That they were second-rate citizens in those states seems to have been forgotten, but this still lurks in their historical memory, under the crust, deep down in their hearts, see? It’s where their nationalism comes from, I think.

http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/7034

[JMA]

kaur,

With the greatest respect why would you believe anything Putin says in public forum?

Stan:

From Putin's answers about Ukraine two days ago.

1) Nationalism and even neo-Nazism are experiencing a resurgence in western Ukraine.

2) People in eastern and southeastern regions of Ukraine were worried about their future and the future of their children, because they saw a rapid growth of nationalist sentiments, heard threats and saw that [the new authorities] wanted to invalidate some of the ethnic minorities’ rights, including the rights of the Russian minority. On the other hand, this description is relative, because Russians are native persons in Ukraine. But an attempt was made to invalidate all decisions regarding the use of the native language. This alarmed people, of course. What happened next?

3) But you know well the history of this territory (Ukraine) and its people. Some of these territories were part of Czechoslovakia, some of Hungary, some of Austro-Hungary and some of Poland, where they were never full-fledged citizens. You know, something has always been growing in their heart of hearts.

Some people seem to believe that it is this circumstance – because these territories were former possessions of several present-day EU countries – that imbues them with some special European substance. That they were second-rate citizens in those states seems to have been forgotten, but this still lurks in their historical memory, under the crust, deep down in their hearts, see? It’s where their nationalism comes from, I think.

http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/7034

[Stan]

Mark,
In theory, and I mean way back when, our Army shrink tried to explain the Mobutu mentality.

Huge sense of self-worth
persuasive
ruthless
No remorse
manipulative

Politicians

The year book I referenced are from a bunch of very smart criminologists with plenty of experience in dealing with exactly what is happening in the Ukraine.

Sadly, their advise fell on deaf ears.

kaur,

With the greatest respect why would you believe anything Putin says in public forum?

[carl]

Russia would know how long it would take and could plan accordingly.

Still don't blame them for arming themselves as the US nuclear umbrella is unreliable.

Exactly. Which is why this is all so dangerous and could spiral out of control so easily. Russia would know when the front line nations would start to nuke up and approx how long it would take. They would have to act to forestall that. Poland would fight and countries like Sweden, Finland and all the other front line nations may ally with them in order to fend off Ivan, for they would know that they would be next. And Turkey, I should not forget about Turkey. They are in the group of front line nations too I figure.

Then there is Israel. Israel knows that the stronger Russia gets, the worse the world climate is for them. It would be in their interest if Russia were preoccupied with central Europe and stayed preoccupied with central Europe. And Israel has lots of nukes and lots of experience working on the sly with other countries to develop nukes. Who knows, there may develop a group of small and medium nations coalescing around Israel's nuke know how their common interest being fending off the Russians.

None of the above figures on what the other countries of the world will do when they see this happening. There are lots of other countries that could go nuke anytime they wanted too with relatively little trouble, countries like Australia, Thailand, Japan, Brazil, South Korea, Indonesia and on and on.

This is extremely dangerous, fate of the world kind of danger. I don't think people, especially the American political elites for the most part, realize this.

[wm]

... and why they may need to obtain weapons for use at their own discretion and how long it would take have the weapons and delivery systems in place and operationally ready?

All this discussion of potential nuclear proliferation reminds me of the song "Who's Next" by Tom Lehrer, here on YouTube for your listening and viewing pleasure.