Ukraine (closed; covers till August 2014)

[carl]

One of the things we have to realize is that with the utter irrrelevence (sic) of the EU and the uselessness of NATO the concept of those organizations or of "Europe" are meaningless now, or will be unless some backbones are grown lickity split. We are going to go back to individual countries and what they are going to do. That is what will matter. What is Poland going to do? What is Sweden going to do? We will have to think in those terms and act accordingly.

If Vlad's adventure isn't contested the world is going to get very much more complicated and therefore very much more dangerous.

[Stan]

Carl,

One of the things we have to realize is that with the utter irrrelevence (sic) of the EU and the uselessness of NATO the concept of those organizations or of "Europe" are meaningless now, or will be unless some backbones are grown lickity split. We are going to go back to individual countries and what they are going to do. That is what will matter. What is Poland going to do? What is Sweden going to do? We will have to think in those terms and act accordingly.

The EU and to some extent our Neutral Nations are all about equal rights and business. So sensitive a subject that courses include mandatory hours of training to recognize every aspect. If you have to apply that in a wartime scenario (we did), all of these strategies fly out the window.

Wasn't it US that mounted a purported Color Coup against the Ukrainian government ? Was it not US that invented a Nuclear Rogue State to support our whining ?

Seems we were doing something.

Poland is already supporting the situation and Sweden and Finland are stymied by constitutional referendums. To say that Sweden is simple standing by and watching the action is hilarious. Their military equipment and ordnance sales looks like a mad shopping spree at Kmart.... While the remainder of us try and keep up.

If Vlad's adventure isn't contested the world is going to get very much more complicated and therefore very much more dangerous.

Agreed. But how ?
I recommend the African version of an overthrow of the thrown. But, we are civilized as someone told me herein on the 2nd amendment thread, and therefore can't do that.

[carl]

Carl,

Wasn't it US that mounted a purported Color Coup against the Ukrainian government ? Was it not US that invented a Nuclear Rogue State to support our whining ?

Seems we were doing something.

Poland is already supporting the situation and Sweden and Finland are stymied by constitutional referendums. To say that Sweden is simple standing by and watching the action is hilarious. Their military equipment and ordnance sales looks like a mad shopping spree at Kmart.... While the remainder of us try and keep up.

Agreed. But how ?
I recommend the African version of an overthrow of the thrown. But, we are civilized as someone told me herein on the 2nd amendment thread, and therefore can't do that.

Stan:

We have done some things I guess but it seems when things get a little bit tougher, we fold.

The people who are doing nothing are the in group, so to speak of Euro nations. They are seemingly willing to throw the second class Euro nations to the wolves and as you say those states are doing for themselves, and a good thing that is too. I should have been more clear in that situation will make things a lot more hard to read, therefore unpredictable, therefore dangerous. It was easy when you could sort of just deal with Europe. It is harder when you have to deal with all those front line states state by state. It will get much harder still if, when they start to nuke up.

There are lots of hows. The first pages of this thread are filled with ideas. But actual action, serious action has to occur. Ya gotta actually do something. An example is the to do that was made of individual economic sanctions being taken against numbers of Russians. Then later it turned out that a whopping one guy was sanctioned. Or the MRE thing. The Ukrainians ask for weapons and we give them boxed lunches. And we won't send them via USAF transport, they have to go by truck so as not to upset Ivan. That is worse than doing nothing.

There are hows but there is not the determination to do. As you said, there is something lacking in us when doing is sniffingly put down as uncivilized. In order to be civilized you got to be alive and if you don't do when history comes calling you will end up dead.

Funny how time in Africa, even a little like for me, sort of peels away layers of things that don't matter.