Page 2 of 97 FirstFirst 12341252 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 1935

Thread: Ukraine (closed; covers till August 2014)

  1. #21
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    589

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebubalicious View Post
    Yes, it's Ukraine and it would be funny if weren't also sad. I like the fact that the speaker had an umbrella with him to shield him from the eggs....

    I do think the opposition is right, though. Yanukovych is selling the country out. The USG is so behind the curve. Russia has been buying up land and businesses in crimea for years. They've also been distributing propaganda and encouraging russian nationalism. In 2008, the USG figured out that it might be smart to put some money in and engage in crimea in an attempt to balance the equation somewhat (heading up to the election). They channeled existing and new project funds to crimea and attempted to show a good american face down there. People still voted en masse for Yanukovych and the russian option and now I'm sure the USG is kicking themselves for sitting on the sidelines for so long.

    Secondarily, I wonder whether recent events in Georgia and Kyrgyzstan and current realities in Ukraine (bad economy tentatively propped up by the IMF) might push people to respond with violence (beyond the usual paid mobs and such)? Time will tell, I guess.
    Lets not forget the large Russian diaspora in the Crimea and the fact that legally speaking Khruschev's reorganistion of the Republic boundaries during the 1960s had dubious legality even by the Soviet constitutional standards of the day. Prior to his incorporation of the Crimea into the Ukraine the Crimea was a province belonging to the Russian SFSR. To this day the controverial move still rankles Russian lawmakers and politicians who inherited the Soviet constitution and its political problems. Indeed, the legal situation is roughly analogous to the status of Chechnya within the Russian Federation; the original conflict began when Dudayeav asserted the right of Chechnya to seced from the RF based upon the claim that Chechnya had been accorded Republic status according to the 1990 Soviet constitution which was repealled, adopted, abolished and then partlty incorporated into Russian law (Checnya was now an Autonomous region again though with certain Republic-like powers). The Russian diaspora, like the one in Kaliningrad, is hardly an illigitimate matter for the Russians to be concerned about and neither is their ability to acces a warm water port. IMO the Ukrainian's need to show maturity rather than, as you claim the Russians are doing, of turning it into a nationalist issue with which to contest the recent elections. Of course, it would hurt for the Russian's to think-out-of-the box and show some maturity too
    Last edited by Tukhachevskii; 04-28-2010 at 03:19 PM.

  2. #22
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    99

    Default

    This is all of the Ukraine's making. If previous Ukrainian governments had bit the bullet and weaned the country's energy usage and rconomy off cheap Russian gas, they would be in a better bargaining position. Instead the government had its hands tied as the country is still dependent on cheap Russian gas. The oppositionm, fall all its attacks, is just as responsible as the present government for this situation.

  3. #23
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    First deaths in the Kiev clashes. Obviously that blood spilled into the snow is bad news, as a line has now been crossed.

    The ongoing fighting between demonstrators and riot police has been ferocious, but limited; hostilities have been restricted to a small corner of the capital near the government building, and the two sides observe many breaks in clashes.

    But all this may be about to change. More activists are flooding into Kiev from the west, and crowds are massing at the site of the clashes. As the anger and the number of people mounts, the likelihood of a massive outbreak of violence, from either side, increases.
    The Ukraine is perhaps the most important conflict area right on the borders of the EU. It is always rather obvious that Mr. Putin is trying by many means and with considerable effort to bring this rather large country into the Russian orbit. Western attempts have clearly been less pushy but relied more on the passive but strong pull of attractive elements of the EU and it's countries. It is certainly in the interest of pretty much all EU members to have an Ukraine which does not augment Russian power. 45 Million more on your side and 45 Million less on the other are in general a rather good deal even if it sounds quite crude. In my opinion in the long term the option Europe is as well a far better course for the Ukrainians as a whole then the option Russia.

    Klitschko makes some good points:

    SPIEGEL: Vladimir Putin once said that Ukraine was not a proper state.

    Klitschko: Our neighbors to the east regrettably view the issue of EU integration exclusively from a geopolitical standpoint. But that's not the point: We are not fighting against anyone. We are choosing a road to development for our country. Unfortunately many people in Moscow still view Ukraine as "their zone" -- as part of the Russian sphere of influence. They don't understand that it would also be better for them to have a Ukraine that is a strong neighbor, with a strong economy. A Russian expansion at Ukraine's expense is impossible.

    SPIEGEL: Putin says that the EU -- not Russia -- is actually intervening in Ukraine. Aren't all sides trying to make Ukraine into their sphere of influence?

    Klitschko: We negotiate with Europe as equals; Russia looks down at us. The EU makes us offers; Russia wants to impose its will on us.

    SPIEGEL: Would you tell him that you are striving over the long term for Ukraine to enter the EU?

    Klitschko: The answer is obvious. Just look at the countries that have oriented themselves toward Europe, and those that haven't. In the former East Bloc countries we all had similar starting conditions after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Today we see the progress made by countries that have elected to take the European route. They have a high standard of living, better infrastructure, and civil rights are respected. This is the only way for us.
    This Klitschko has always struck me as a smart, disciplined fellow in the couple of interviews I have heard and read before. Obviously he is in a relative weak position compared his opponents who certainly are not playing by the typical European rulebook, but they also have much to lose.
    Last edited by Firn; 01-22-2014 at 11:37 PM.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  4. #24
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    13,209

    Default Limited winter protests get attention

    The protests in Kiev have in the last few days reached a new intensity, but behind the limited BBC reporting, other press reports and some social media it is clear that the violence is very limited to a small part of Kiev - near the parliament. See tonight's BBC report:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25843988

    The protesters also appear far more organised, indeed equipped and armed to the extent the rioters and the riot police appear to be one. Some reports indicate the extreme right are in the frontline. I noted tonight one of the dead protesters came from eastern Ukraine, where traditionally the Russian-speaking majority have supported the government.

    In Lviv, a western city, no reported protests - except to block the redeployment of security forces to Kiev. Western Ukraine traditionally has voted against this government - so why the inactivity?

    When you consider the weather that anyone is rioting is amazing. It is minus minus 19C now and was minus 12C during the day:http://uk.weather.com/weather/today/UPXX0486:1:UP

    For several years Ukrainian politicians have failed their nation, remember the 'Orange Revolution' and within years the then elected Prime Minister is ejected by the voters, ending up in prison.
    davidbfpo

  5. #25
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    It is of course difficult to understand why things happen exactly in the way they happen. Maybe the cold does reduce the ability to create mass protests.

    In any case it is difficult to imagine a strong economic development of this large country under the thumb of Russia. A closer integration of it's economy into the European on the other hand should help a considerable amount in the long term.

    There a great amount of graphics showing the aweful performance of it's economy compared to other European countries of the ex-Warsaw Pact. One can argue that in geographic terms* the Ukraine got the shortest stick, being the distant from the economic clusters of the West but by any benchmark the 'progress' has been terrible.




    Shocking indeed.



    *Poland, a country of roughly similar dimensions, has the huge advantage to be close to Germany (and Souther Scandinavia).





    Just the monthly salaries per oblast, but it indicates that the Ukraine has a reversed economic landscape compared the rest of the Eastern European countries, in which generally the regions closer to the West (plus the capital) are richer. Seems like the rich coal deposits kicked off the economic development based on heavy industry with the usual cluster effects, a bit like the old Ruhr.


    Last edited by Firn; 01-23-2014 at 12:59 PM.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  6. #26
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    I did a little bit of research to understand more about the aweful economic growth of the country. In this short time you can get only a very limited and fragmented view, but I found the impact of monopolies and the interactions with politics interesting:

    The Ukrainian Week does as far as I can tell a fine job at covering the economic fallout of concentrated power of the oligarchs and their influence within politics. The combinations of power and money is a very dangerous ones and can result in a vicous cycle in which both push each other. More money means more political power and more political power more money.

    A good example is the position of Rafael Kuzmin, First Deputy Chair of the Antimonopoly Committee, who insists that Dmytro Firtash and Rinat Akhmetov, two Ukrainian tycoons referred to as key Party of Regions’ sponsors until recently, are not monopolists. Meanwhile, independent economists estimate that DTEK, a group of power plants owned by Rinat Akhmetov, controls over 35% of the electricity supply market. Dmytro Firtash’s entities control 100% of facilities producing ammonium nitrate and nearly 50-60% of ammonia and urea production facilities. Meanwhile, Mr. Kuzmin refers to the Privat Group as a monopolist. The group is owned by Ihor Kolomoyskyi and Hennadiy Boholiubov who are still outside the Party of Regions. However, Mr. Kuzmin admitted that the Antimonopoly Committee had no proof of Privat Group’s monopolistic activity because its different companies are owned by various offshore entities.

    Ukrtelecom, a major Ukrainian telephone operator, has recently been bought by a little known company linked to the president’s family, according to The Ukrainian Week’s sources. Prior to being sold to private investors, Ukrtelecom had been on the list of natural monopolies dominating the nationwide markets for local telephone service and telecommunication channel rental. However, it was removed from that list in June 2011 although the company controls nearly 70% of the city landline telephone market and 75% of the intercity and international telephone connection markets.
    Very bad incentives indeed. It should not surprise anybody that the oligarchs have mostly built their empires from heavy industry investments in the east. Of course there are also other players with a similar background not least the famous pro-European prisoner. All in all the situation has become also so dangerous because the control of the state power has become so important to conserve the personal wealth and freedom. I have little doubt that the current president fears that the roles could become reversed. There is likely even enought dirty laundry around to get a lot of political opponents into prison by a fair trial.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  7. #27
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    13,209

    Default Behind the shields the police are a problem

    A FP article goes behind the shields we've seen of late; the headline gives away the theme:
    Ukraine's Public Enemy Number One: The Police
    Why Ukraine's brutal riot police are one of the biggest obstacles on the path to reform.
    Link:http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...one_the_police

    Added. A report using open sources to identify the ammunition used in the Kiev clashes, which may have killed two people. The title tells you 'not fit for purpose':
    Report: Lethal ‘car stopper’ bullets used against protesters during Hrushevskoho Street clashes
    Link:http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...es-335579.html
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 01-25-2014 at 04:09 PM.
    davidbfpo

  8. #28
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    Seems like somebody pro-Russian is having fun with leeking internal US and EU conversations.

    The professional Americans which will have amused the EUropeans even more then they have been amused about the US before. After hearing the US opinion on Klitschko I'm pretty sure he is a right guy for the future.

    I'm pretty sure there are some broad grins around the diplomatic world when it heard the first tape.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  9. #29
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    Shocking news from Ukraine. A tragedy right here in Europe and a very dangerous situation. I wrote about the dominance of the Eastern Oligarchs in their economy and the dark flows between them and the current political leadership. Now the latter has pushed itself into a much smaller corner, it was not acting exacatly in a (Western) democratic manner before and now it has much blood on his hands. They engineered prison and abuse for their lected political opponents for much less, so they are perhaps rightly even more afraid of losing power. There are also extremist on the other side. A bad, bad situation.

    I will have to collect my thoughts on that.

    P.S: Looking at this footage there is no surprise how a considerable share of the victims died. Such a waste of life.
    Last edited by Firn; 02-20-2014 at 08:32 PM.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  10. #30
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    13,209

    Default A winter revolution

    At last a clear concise expert explanation what is going on in the Ukraine, by Anne Applebaum:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ole-story.html

    Even so it is easy to see that events in Kiev have moved at a pace which may invalidate her explanation.

    There is much more to what has and is happening in the Ukraine, far beyond the scenes in the centre of Kiev. A truly corrupt state, which was starting to split not so much geographically as institutionally - most clearly shown by the police refusing national orders - and the reports of a mass protest in Kharkov against the government.
    davidbfpo

  11. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Durban, South Africa
    Posts
    3,902

    Default

    Tomorrow - 23 Feb - the Sochi Olympics end then Russia will be free to enter the fray... openly.


    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    At last a clear concise expert explanation what is going on in the Ukraine, by Anne Applebaum:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ole-story.html

    Even so it is easy to see that events in Kiev have moved at a pace which may invalidate her explanation.

    There is much more to what has and is happening in the Ukraine, far beyond the scenes in the centre of Kiev. A truly corrupt state, which was starting to split not so much geographically as institutionally - most clearly shown by the police refusing national orders - and the reports of a mass protest in Kharkov against the government.
    Last edited by JMA; 02-22-2014 at 07:35 PM.

  12. #32
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    The events of the last days showed once again how difficult it is to make political predictions, especially about the future. I wrote about a president backed into a small corner and (rightly) afraid to lose his power, but I did not imagine that he was so afraid that he would decide to flee out of the country...

    It was much easier to anticipate the luxury and wealth in which he lived, as he and mostly eastern oligarchs have plundered the state and the people, but the ship in the artificial lake was still a surprise. As well as the pheasants I should add.

    It is difficult to understand what drove him into the political exile but losing control of most of the country, the refusal of a large part of the military and the more then doubtful loyality of the security forces seem to have been the most important elements. Who knows.

    Overall it would be disgraceful if the EU, IMF and USA would miss once again a chance to support the Ukraine in it's difficult task to become a working democracy. Russia under Puntin is clearly only interested in keeping it in it's orbit. There is no doubt that in the mid to long run an Ukraine better integrated into the Western economic and political system will result in a higher standard of living for most citiziens.

    The huge advantage of the Western world is it's vast financial strenght (yes, despite crisis and all). It would be amazingly stupid and possibly costly to be once again stingy. A 30 billion credit line feels like a good deal, most from the EU, maybe some of the USA and the IMF. Braking the monopolies of the oligarchs would be a good string to attach, cutting the subventions for gas a stupid one, talk about own goal. If this goes against the IMF rules, the EU should step up quickly. Raising 30 billions over a couple of years should cost the EU as a whole, even if we include some write-off, only a couple of billions at the most, perhaps at most some 10 € per capita*. The sucess is of course not secure but it should greatly increase the chances to move the Ukraine in the right direction for the good of it's citiziens.

    Even 5 billons are pretty cheap for a good chance to greatly increase the political and economic stability of a rather large European country and to greatly reduce the Russian influence on it if you think how much money, possibly 100+ billion, was thrown by European nations into that far away dustbin called Afghanistan.
    Last edited by Firn; 02-23-2014 at 07:54 PM.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  13. #33
    Council Member TheCurmudgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    1,117

    Default

    We may have a break in the drama but there is still far to go before the end of this crisis.

    Throughout the crisis in Ukraine, experts real and imagined have persistently invoked the country's vaunted East-West "divide." According to this interpretation, Ukraine is neatly divided into two homogeneous, coherent, and irreconcilable blocs. The implicit message is that partition is inevitable and desirable. As Viktor Yanukovych fled Kiev for the pro-Russian and "separatist" Kharkiv on Feb. 22, analysts feared he would ignite a civil war between Ukraine's irreconcilable factions. But as is often the case with such binary oppositions, they conceal and obfuscate more than they reveal and clarify, creating a simplistic image of a complex condition.
    On a separate note, compare the Ukraine to Syria. Here the sides are clearly defined and the idea of devolving into civil war is still something that is feared by all sides (even though it is still a real possibility). The nature of the culture as well as the political systems is different enough to potentially keep that from happening.
    Last edited by TheCurmudgeon; 02-23-2014 at 08:47 PM.
    "I can change almost anything ... but I can't change human nature."

    Jon Osterman/Dr. Manhattan
    ---

  14. #34
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    I think the article does a good job at pointing out the factors which unite the country instead those, often stressed recently, which divide it. As I wrote before nobody can predict the future, but there is a good chances that Ukraine might follow the path most other countries to the north and west already undertook with good sucess. It won't be an easy ride as the road is very bumpy. Helping the financially starved, economically weak and politically fragile state properly should increase it's odds greatly.

    I just hope that the EU does not make the error of comitting too little and to be too weak against a relatively weak Russia which overplayed it's hand. An EU membership is obviously far far away but why should the Ukraine, an doubtlessy European nation be automatically excluded? Because a large percentage of it's citiziens speak Russian?* Because the current Russian strongman wants to keep it under his thumb?

    *It would of course not be the first one.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  15. #35
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    Ukraine bonds rally, the financial markets so far like the progress from armed clashes on Maiden to the hunt for Yanukovych. The talk about big international financial aid might have played a very minor role too.

    Ukraine has $17 billion of liabilities coming due, excluding interest, through the end of 2015, including $1 billion of bonds maturing in June this year, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The price on notes due in four months rose to 97.31 cents on the dollar today from as low as 91.438 cents last week, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
    Pretty impressive stuff. Now the financial markets are not efficient but tend strongly to be so.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  16. #36
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    175

    Default Canadian centre has mature look at contest in the Ukraine


  17. #37
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    Just a few quick comments:

    There is also a strong economic division, though this one is less geographic in nature. As with much of post-Soviet Russia, Ukraine saw the rise of an oligarchical class who quickly captured former state assets, and then got involved in politics to protect their economic gains. While these oligarchs span the political spectrum (indeed, Yulia Tymoshenko is included among their number), they have mostly been a conservative force in Ukrainian politics, fearing that closer integration with the EU could damage their standing. The allegations of corruption surrounding these oligarchs, along with the dire economic situation in Ukraine, have combined to fuel much of the discontent of recent months.
    Perhaps conservative is indeed the right word to describe those mostly Eastern robber barons, who would rather conserve the previous status quo as it allows them to corrupt and steal so easily. Keep in mind that most moved in a similar way to their Russian counterparts, snapping up state-owned enterprises and buying monopolies. It is no surprise that most stem from the industrial heartland of Ukraine.

    Such a financial outflow would also be politically unacceptable within the EU itself, given the ongoing political fallout from the Greek sovereign debt crisis. Bailing out a non-EU state with European funds would be highly contentious, especially in Germany.

    Furthermore, despite the weakened state of Russian finances, Russia is geographically and linguistically much closer to Ukraine, and its trade is far more vital to the health of the national economy than anything the EU or USA has to offer. As such, they cannot expect merely to become Ukraine’s major power patrons, taking over from Russia. Russia will always be a significant influence on Ukrainian society, and this state of affairs must be accepted by the US and European governments to proceed in a constructive manner. No permanent settlement can be secured without Russian interests being considered.
    As much as I like the try to show a 'balanced' integration of Russian interest it is important to point out that quite a few EU members, especially the Baltic states have found themselves in a situation with pretty much the same getting written. Russian interest dominated them for centuries and yet they are now firmly part of the EU and even NATO. While Russia is powerful in some regards, it is weak in others and it is quite possible to see the Ukraine within the EU in ten-twenty years.

    I would dispute that the Russian trade is much more vital for the Urkaine then the one with the EU. Trade with the European Unions has increased considerably relative to the one with Russia. With closer economic integration and economic development this should increase further. If Ukraine is able to finance the gas it is actually it is actually not in a weak position compared to Russia in which a good part of the budget gets financed by the sale of gas to the EU.

    Interestingly, the EU has uploaded a paper dealing with 'Myths' about the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement. I had no time to read it.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  18. #38
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    Some interesting demographic and economic trends within the country:

    The Western-looking and more Ukrainian-speaking regions have overall a considerable higher fertility...




    .. and longer life-expectancy




    A snapshot of growth:



    The Krim profited from an influx of ethnic Tartars. As a benchmark we have the native languages:





    The Wikipedia page is surprisingly detailed and well structured, good job.

    P.S: The anthem seems strangely fitting, at least for those who went out to protest.
    Last edited by Firn; 02-25-2014 at 05:45 PM.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  19. #39
    Council Member Firn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    An interesting map brought into play by Invest Gazeta. This has been (quite obviously) disputed by the Russophil and discussed in the comments below.



    I can not dig deep enough to get a proper understanding of the facts, still I find the discussion interesting. In Italy it is also a hot topic but the facts are far clearer.

    AP says:
    February 3, 2014 at 3:07 pm

    What I’ve heard agrees with the chart you posted rather than the article you translated. To a certain extent it makes sense: Ukraine is fantastically corrupt, the ruling party is linked to the Eastern oligarchs. Why wouldn’t they underpay in terms of taxes, given their connection to the government? Ukraine’s new tax laws, for example, favor large businesses of the sort that dominate the Eastern economy over small and medium-sized businesses more typical of the western parts of the country:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...6AF1U020101116
    The answer:

    Fedia Kriukov says:
    February 3, 2014 at 4:36 pm

    Upon some further consideration, I can’t say that you’re entirely wrong. I added a column to my spreadsheet above, calculating “Tax per capita as % of GRP per capita”. As you can see, the East does not have the same tax burden as the Center (your theory that Ukrainian tax laws favor large businesses could account for that). But the West’s tax burden is still the lightest of all.

    So to recap all of this:
    1) The West is the poorest part of the country in terms of GRP per capita
    2) The West pays the least amount of taxes per capita (naturally follows from (1))
    3) The West has the lightest tax burden even in relation to its meager GRP per capita (just under that of the South)
    4) The West is the most heavily subsidized part of the country

    I think this should settle the East vs West debate.

    One other note is that usually only the Lvov region is used to represent the West. However, while Lvov is the richest and most developed region of the West, it is only one of 7 western regions in that part of the country, and is not representative of their overall level. Even then, Lvov is merely on par with poorest regions of the rest of the country. There are very few regions outside of West Ukraine that are economically surpassed by Lvov.
    All rather interesting stuff, but as I said I will have to stay on the sidelines of that discussion.

    A paper about FDI, the capital plays clearly a special role. Overall subventions gained by political power/corruption can be key elements of shareholder profit, as Boing and other US companies show. Taking from the poor to give to the rich is of course not an US invention.
    Last edited by Firn; 02-26-2014 at 02:45 PM.
    ... "We need officers capable of following systematically the path of logical argument to its conclusion, with disciplined intellect, strong in character and nerve to execute what the intellect dictates"

    General Ludwig Beck (1880-1944);
    Speech at the Kriegsakademie, 1935

  20. #40
    Council Member TheCurmudgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    1,117

    Default

    A little more information on the east-west divide and the potential for violence.

    A Russian parliamentary delegation visiting the Crimean city of Simferopol on Tuesday welcomed the potential move. "If the parliament of the Crimean autonomy or its residents express the wish to join the Russian Federation, Russia will be prepared to consider this sort of application," said Leonid Slutsky, the head of the delegation. "We will be examining the situation and doing so fast." According to Ukrainian media reports, Russian authorities in Crimea have begun issuing passports following expedited procedures.
    "I can change almost anything ... but I can't change human nature."

    Jon Osterman/Dr. Manhattan
    ---

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 457
    Last Post: 12-31-2015, 11:56 PM
  2. Replies: 4772
    Last Post: 06-14-2015, 04:41 PM
  3. Shot down over the Ukraine: MH17
    By JMA in forum Europe
    Replies: 253
    Last Post: 08-04-2014, 08:14 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •