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Thread: Ukraine (closed; covers till August 2014)

  1. #1521
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    At least Russian criminals know what to steal in order to drive back to Russia.

    Seems that Russians cannot afford to purchase such vehicles since the economy has flat lined.

    "A convoy of cars, which were taken by gunmen of Gorlovka’s garrison of the Donbas People’s Militia from a businessman in Artemivsk Volodimir Ivankov, was noticed between Hartsyzsk and Ilovajsk.

    According to source of Gorlovka.ua, who has personally seen a convoy of Porsche, Ferrari, Maybach, Bentley, Rolls Royce Phantom, Mercedes Brabus on the road, they are most likely trying to get out from Ukraine to Russia."

  2. #1522
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    An interesting report on matters in the Donetsk region, especially the looting going on. It is unclear whether the author is Russian or Ukrainian.

    Link:http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russ...le-for-donetsk

    He ends, rather optimistically:
    The best solution for Kyiv would be to give maximum autonomy to Donetsk, and, with the support of pro-Ukrainian citizens of Donbas, gradually try to replace the ‘republic’s’ leadership with their supporters. This will take time, but if the battle for Donetsk escalates into civil war, the secession of south-east Ukraine from the rest of the country could become a very real possibility.
    davidbfpo

  3. #1523
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    Putin and company have repeatedly stated that the protection of the Russian language was critical to them and that the "junta" had eliminated the "protection" of the Russian language in south-east Ukraine---below indicates that these statements have been from the very beginning an outright lie published over and over to the ethnic Ukrainians in the south-east as part and parcel of the Russian infowar.

    Stopfake.org, a goup of Ukrainian journalists and activists that exposes the disinformation coming from Russia and pro-Russian goups concerning events in Ukraine, has posted a scan from a new Russian history textbook. The lesson on the Ukraine crisis and the annexation of Crimea asserts erroneously that one of the post-Viktor Yanukovych government's "first decisions was the abolishment of the Russian language's status and the prohibition of its use on a par with Ukrainian."

    In fact, the Supreme Council of Ukraine did vote in February to end the special status of the Russian language in Ukraine, but Supreme Council Chairman Oleksandr Turchynov refused to sign the measure and it never had legal force.

  4. #1524
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    Reference the Russian MANPADs that were used yesterday to down a AN-26 over Donetsk.

    Seems that is was only recently issued to the Russian Airborne Division. Definitely not in the Ukrainian inventory.

    So the question begs to be asked---if the Russian irregulars did not bring it with them are there in fact active duty Russian airborne types inside the Ukraine?

    "The plane AN-26, which was downed on the 6th of June above Slovyansk in Donetsk region was shot at from a Russian antiaircraft missile systems 9K333 “Verba”. The Head of the Centre for Military-Political Studies, the leader of the group “Information resistance” Dmitry Tymchuk wrote about this on his Facebook page.

    “The plane AN-26, which was downed yesterday by Slovyansk terrorists was shot at from the newest Russian antiaircraft missile systems 9K333 “Verba”. The plane was struck at the height of 4050 m by a 9M336 missile fired from the above MANPADS. Currently the rocket fragments are studied by Ukrainian experts,” - wrote Tymchuk.

    According to him, this MANPADS has only been released to units of the Russian Army at the end of May this year.

    “At the beginning of June the first samples arrived in antiaircraft units of 98th Regiment of Airborne Division (Ivanivskiy region). There is no such MANPADS in other departments and units of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation yet. MANPADS 9K333 “Verba” is not supplied on export,” – added Tymchuk.

    As we reported earlier, three members of the crew died during the crash, three survived, two are missing."

  5. #1525
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    So much for the reported media statements that indicated Putin "told" the FSB and the Russian Border Security Service to tighten up the Ukrainian/Russian border.

    More armored vehicles and KAMAZ trucks broken through again today.

    So did the media get the story wrong or did in fact Putin actually not say anything to anyone.

    http://inforesist.org/another-column...order/?lang=en

  6. #1526
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default OSCE reporting

    I assumed the OSCE mission was still in place, but only today was a report Tweeted. Note the observers report from across the Ukraine:http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/119606
    davidbfpo

  7. #1527
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    An interesting report on matters in the Donetsk region, especially the looting going on. It is unclear whether the author is Russian or Ukrainian.

    Link:http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russ...le-for-donetsk

    He ends, rather optimistically:
    He uses Kyiv instead of Kiev, ergo, he is Ukrainian
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  8. #1528
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    It seems the Ukrainian SBU has done some photo analysis on the Russian social media sites and match a killed Russian soldier to his own social media site.

    Warning---graphic photos.

    It was interesting that immediately after the heavy Donetsk airport fighti9ng 32 dead bodies were sent immediately to Russian and another over 30 were not recovered from the airport fighting. All were Russian citizens and it is thought the remaining killed and un recovered were also Russian citizens.

    This individual seemed to be Russian SF recruited by the FSB.

    http://inforesist.org/a-russian-spec...to-18/?lang=en

  9. #1529
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    While this might be Ukrainian infowar--- this site has been accurate lately on the "rumor control" side.

    Russian government paying the families of dead Chechen fighters killed in eastern Ukraine ----85K USD.

    http://inforesist.org/russia-pays-85...enary/?lang=en

  10. #1530
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    It seems the Ukrainian SBU has done some photo analysis on the Russian social media sites and match a killed Russian soldier to his own social media site.

    Warning---graphic photos.

    It was interesting that immediately after the heavy Donetsk airport fighti9ng 32 dead bodies were sent immediately to Russian and another over 30 were not recovered from the airport fighting. All were Russian citizens and it is thought the remaining killed and un recovered were also Russian citizens.

    This individual seemed to be Russian SF recruited by the FSB.

    http://inforesist.org/a-russian-spec...to-18/?lang=en
    We, out here in India, are a bit away from the action.

    This post suggest that all the chaos is by Russians who have come into Ukraine.

    Does it mean that the East Ukrainians are not involved and it is all a Russian action and no more?

    Why are the East Ukrainians not objecting to the Russian intervention?

  11. #1531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    We, out here in India, are a bit away from the action.

    This post suggest that all the chaos is by Russians who have come into Ukraine.

    Does it mean that the East Ukrainians are not involved and it is all a Russian action and no more?

    Why are the East Ukrainians not objecting to the Russian intervention?
    This is a good question---if one looks at the initial separatist movement which then Russia declared to be "federalistists" it was a mixture of local criminals, former SBU security officers and local police with a few local adventurists.

    They were the ones that took over the various admin buildings and declared themselves mayors and chiefs of the new republics and were the ones that called for the new elections.

    Then shortly after their "elections" one started to see "war tourists", Chechens, Cossacks, Russian citizens with military and or AFG experience crossing into the Ukraine on Russian military green KAMAZ trucks and APCs.

    A key battle was the Donetsk airport which was led by the Chechen BN who suffered badly which this individual was one which seems to indicate that the individual was in fact active duty Russian SF/FSB.

    One needs to understand the eight phases of the new Russian military doctrine New Generation Warfare which is a UW strategy in support of their political war with the Ukraine.

    The following article in Foreign Policy is the first actual mention by an US intelligence official that what now is going on in eastern Ukraine is in fact UW.

    http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts...a_major_threat

    If one checks the irregular attacks against the Ukrainian military over the last five days and the use of the new Russian MANPADs they look, taste, feel like true irregular/guerilla warfare attacks ie targeted killings, attacks against critical infrastructure, sabotage, mortar attacks against civilians to give the image that the Ukrainian army is firing on civilians and the list could go on.

    In the ethnic Russian population that initially was demonstrating for annexation it has started to have buyers remorse---there was suppose to be a big music festival titled "Remove the Fascists" ---approximately 50 people showed up.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-08-2014 at 08:23 PM.

  12. #1532
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    While this might be Ukrainian infowar--- this site has been accurate lately on the "rumor control" side.

    http://inforesist.org/russia-pays-85...enary/?lang=en
    copy-paste from the link:
    According to the information website kavkazcenter.com a new shipment of “Load 200″ (body bags – ed.) has arrived to Russia.
    Well, that explains everything. This data is as reliable as taliban.com data on american losses in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    We, out here in India, are a bit away from the action.
    This post suggest that all the chaos is by Russians who have come into Ukraine.
    Does it mean that the East Ukrainians are not involved and it is all a Russian action and no more?
    Why are the East Ukrainians not objecting to the Russian intervention?
    Would you listen the other side of the conflict(e.g. South-Eastern separatists), or you'll blindly buy everything that american ministry of truth and its advocate Outlaw sell you?
    Actually, not everything he posts here is outright lie, sometimes he is generally true, for example he is right about apathy of local population, what he and many ohers fail to mention is that the minority of die-hard separatists are very active and highly motivated to resist the central government for real and fictional reasons, and they are able to win or coherse support of the locals. Some informants say that separatists militia's core troops are made of retired paratroopers and other war dogs. Renowned airborne general Markelov, commander of the Soviet airborne troops, who was born and worked in Dnepropetrovsk, is revered there as local saint.
    Last edited by mirhond; 06-08-2014 at 09:33 PM.
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  13. #1533
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UofIo0vvoNk

    Interview with Strelkov.
    Resume: his view into future is rather grim, he fully understands that militia can't win against regulars, however shambling and cowardly they are, without military aid from Russia, even provided with wide support from population.
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  14. #1534
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    copy-paste from the link:


    Well, that explains everything. This data is as reliable as taliban.com data on american losses in Afghanistan



    Would you listen the other side of the conflict(e.g. South-Eastern separatists), or you'll blindly buy everything that american ministry of truth and its advocate Outlaw sell you?
    Actually, not everything he posts here is outright lie, sometimes he is generally true, for example he is right about apathy of local population, what he and many ohers fail to mention is that the minority of die-hard separatists are very active and highly motivated to resist the central government for real and fictional reasons, and they are able to win or coherse support of the locals. Some informants say that separatists militia's core troops are made of retired paratroopers and other war dogs. Renowned airborne general Markelov, commander of the Soviet airborne troops, who was born and worked in Dnepropetrovsk, is revered there as local saint.
    mirhond---this is why you blog for the Russian FSB---in fact the initial "separatists" were unemployed, criminals, bribed and paid off police or FSB recruited SBU--- who "saw" an opportunity to be just like the "rich oligarchs" and have power like the "Kiev politicians" and to have a press conferences like the "Kiev politicians". Remember mirhond a large number of the ethnic Russian police in the East/South were as corrupt as those in the West-nationalists they were never.

    Small people with big heads that make them dangerous to both themselves as well as the local population. OR was the ability to becoming a "separatist" giving them the right to steal cars, plunder shops, and take extortion monies or kidnap for money from the local ethnic Russian and Ukrainian populations?---man what great "revolutionaries" they are --they would make Mao, Lenin, and Che proud.

    So are you telling me that really the DRP "separatists" are actually what "hidden capitalists"?

    The Donetsk Regions Party which is now in charge was virtually unknown inside the Donbas and pulled very little to no electoral votes in the last six or seven years and then "magically" they take over the Donbass region as what this great "political machine" of the oppressed ethnic Russian population.

    BUT wait wasn't this the same "oppressed ethnic Russian speaking population" that Russian claims the Ukrainian Nazi junta "took" away they language rights?---BUT again wait---the ethnic Russian population was not told that the Russian language law that so "enraged Mosow" which Moscow "claimed" was passed ---was actually never signed into law thus was never a law even under the older Ukrainian constitution---SMALL overlooked detail in the great propaganda machine of Russia, Putin and yourself..

    Right now the DPR "separatists" or as Moscow calls them "federalists" are like the Elvis Presley foreign policy;
    As former Army Sergeant Elvis Presley once said: “We’re caught in a trap. I can’t walk out, because I love you too much baby.” The separatists love the "ornaments of power" and all the "fun" that goes with it---BUT has anyone seen or heard Putin say he is going to send in the Russian army---not a word.

    Actually as far as I can tell from the Russian media---there has not been a single report in any Russian media as to what the four points dictated by the G7 that Putin has to fulfill in order to avoid sectorial sanctions in four weeks;
    1. met with the new Ukrainian President---check he did---bestows quasi political recognition
    2. recognition of the Ukrainian election---check he did that by sending the Russian Ambassador---although a "weak move"
    3. close the Russian borders to "Russian war tourists" and weapons---check---at least he publicly announced it---reality will tell on the ground in the coming days
    4. tell the "separatists" to lay down their arms and leave the admin buildings---NOT done

    BY the way you had no comment to the killed Russian SF individual complete with his social media page and his "death" photo---also reported by the "Taliban.com"---so I take it you accepted the info on the dead Russian SF member to be true?

    MAYBE with your connections you could point us to an actual Russian media announcement to the Russian people the above G7 listed four points that Putin has to fulfill?

    BY the way it was the same "Taliban.com" that provided the death photos of all the 32 previously shipped dead Russian citizens and identified a number of them also from their social media sites and it was the "Taliban.com" that clearly identified eight of them as Russian passport carrying Chechens.

    Thus if it was true then "just maybe" the "Taliban.com" has sources you know nothing about---but then you work for the FSB so you know "everything." So since you "know" everything just be more specific on who is and is not a Russian fighting in the Ukraine---maybe carrying a Russian passport might be a way of identifying those fighters as "war tourists". BUT then again the "Taliban.com" is already doing that.

    So actually mirhond you contribute nothing to the discussion that the "Taliban.com" has or is reporting on it's own---at least they are far more accurate than your comments.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-09-2014 at 01:01 PM.

  15. #1535
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    mirhond---thought you would like this propaganda as reported by RIA and we all know how "accurately "RIA "reports"

    http://en.ria.ru/world/20140609/1904...-Leads-to.html

    Then we have the "Taliban.com" reporting of the same fighting.

    http://inforesist.org/seleznev-milit...yansk/?lang=en

    mirhond ---here is a good learning podcast in order to expand your knowledge of Russian gangs and Russian ultra nationalists in the Crimea and Donbas. But again you already knew all of this from your employers.

    http://www.rferl.org/content/podcast.../25413092.html

    By the way mirhond---remember the "bearded" Cossack you made "fun" about here---based on the "Taliban.com" reporting it seems he has changed irregular units---probably because the Cossacks he was with that were fighting at the Donetsk airport had massive losses---reported at over 60 killed so that unit was virtually "wiped out".

    You will "recognize" his beard again. Notice this irregular unit is far better equipped and has a unified uniform---they are a mix of Russian "war tourists". Have seen nothing reported by the Russian media on this type of "ethnic ProRussian separatist group"- have you?

    So again the "Taliban.com" seems to be getting far better news coverage than the average Russian media do you not think?

    http://inforesist.org/ukrainian-sepa...ation/?lang=en
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-09-2014 at 01:43 PM.

  16. #1536
    Council Member mirhond's Avatar
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    So are you telling me that really the DRP "separatists" are actually what "hidden capitalists"?
    You are talking to imaginary people.

    Actually as far as I can tell from the Russian media
    You can't tell anything from Russian media because you failed to prove that you read Russian
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  17. #1537
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    Default Moderator's Note

    SWC is a broad church of viewpoints, who engage in dialogue / debate here. I think some of the recent posts overlook this.

    Regular posters here all have a passion for events in the Ukraine, please tread carefully and stay within the SWC RoE.
    davidbfpo

  18. #1538
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    You are talking to imaginary people.
    mirhond---did you yourself ever notice that when directly talked to you seem to either ignore the conversation, or you ignore the comments , or you ignore the video/article links. Actually you ignore anything that does not fit your thinking.

    Did you also notice that while attacking me you never did respond to the article link ---by your own comments you defined it "Taliban.com" ---concerning the dead Russian Special Forces soldier recruited and sent to the Ukraine by the FSB?

    So just maybe the "Taliban.com" somehow placed his photo into the Russian social media space, maybe they then "created" this "story" that he says himself he was Russian SF. Maybe the dead man's photo was not his own photo. Maybe the body shipped across to Russia and escorted by Russian journalists was not a Russian.

    So was he or was he not a dead Russian Special Forces soldier killed at the Donetsk airport fighting in a Cossack irregular fighting group that suffered loses exceeding over 100 that day?

    If in fact he was a Russian Special Forces soldier just what was he then doing in Donetsk when Putin and the Russian Foreign Minister have repeatedly stated over the last three weeks (at least 21 times from my media count) there are no Russian soldiers in eastern Ukraine?
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-09-2014 at 04:03 PM. Reason: fix quote

  19. #1539
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    mirhond---it is interesting you brought up the concept of who makes up the early "separatists" in both the DPR and LPR.

    Remember I mentioned back to you ---criminals and corrupt police makeup the majority prior to the arrival of "irregular war tourists from Russia".

    This came out of the Donetsk today concerning "what happens" when your car is stolen in Donetsk---stolen by criminals and corrupt police who by the way dealing with an equally corrupted DPR/LPR administraion.

    Have noticed Russian TV failed to carry anything about these ongoing criminal activities--wonder why?

    QUOTED From a Ukrainian Facebook account:

    An entrepreneur from Donetsk Volodimir Bubley wrote on his Facebook page about mechanism of taking cars from people for the needs of the DPR (Donetsk People’s Republic) and the LHR (Luhansk People’s Republic).

    “I knew perfectly well that there is a strong connection between our law enforcement brethren and the criminality. After all, without one there would be no business for the other.

    This is to some extent could be observed during the time of the Maidan, when the police corny guarded the thugs (titushkas) and were giving information about Maidan supporters to these thugs, so they could clear the city from dissent.

    Although then they still had to hide these actions observing the appearance of legality and the rule of law. With the advent of the bandits, which were covered up and protected by the police, there is no need even to create the appearance that a police officer is running after an offender by definition.

    No one hides anymore, the lawlessness is going on right at the police station .

    Here is one of the schemes, which I personally encountered:

    1. You car is stolen.

    2. Some time later a call from the police station (in my case they made an appearance that they protect the public order in Kirov police station) with the information that the car is found and that you need to come over with all the vehicle documents and your passport to complete all the necessary forms.

    3. Yet, on the arrival to the police station you are met by a police officer, who verifying all your car documents, takes you in the court yard and sits you in a car where two armed representatives of the DPR are already waiting for you. They inform you that according to a decision of the government of the DPR you car becomes the property of the LuhanDon (DPR or LPR – ed.)

    4. Then you are taken into the Motorist Authority where boys in the uniform, who are oriented in the same way as the scum of the Kirov’s police station, are waiting for you with a paper to transfer the ownership of your vehicle to a specific citizen of Luhansk.

    Of course, you will not see you car even within a gunshot.

    Therefore, gentlemen, if any of you will get a call from our dear law enforcement agencies regarding your stolen car, do not hurry to rejoice and run headlong with documents for your property at the specified by the police department address.

    Remember, there are only those there who defends the peace of mind of citizen of LuhanDon (DPR or LHR), and not citizens of Ukraine.

    P.S. In my case the joke didn’t work out. In the sense that they continued to drive in a stolen car, and did not transfer it into their property,” – he wrote.

  20. #1540
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    Interesting video link on the "looting and pillaging" by the so called "separatists" ---went up today on the web.

    Interesting insight in that ---was not originally the reason for the DLP/LPR forming "separatists" the "protection of the ethnic ProRussian population and their culture/language"? Not a how to get rich scheme.

    Now with the end nearing it seems that it is "how can I get rich in a short time" and are they now protect the Russian language--as the last time I checked protecting languages does not make one rich.

    So much for protecting one's culture and language.

    Could be though ---maybe "looting" is a new way to fund a revolution since the Ukrainian government is not paying the separatists for their governing of Donetsk?

    http://inforesist.org/video-dnr-mili...aging/?lang=en
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-09-2014 at 04:55 PM.

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