Ukraine (closed; covers till August 2014)

[AdamG]

From RFE/RL,
Interview with a Ukrainian Separatist Fighter
http://www.businessinsider.com/inter...aratist-2014-7

[Firn]

@outlaw: There is no doubt that the Ukrainian forces have recently liberated a considerable amount of territory and more importantly people. A very rough guess of mine estimates that the population living under the (Pro)Russians is down to somewhat over 2 million from around 2.8 before the last successes. Of course it could be considerably less due to refugees, but it serves as an orientation.

The linked map should also taken only as such and with the fog of war in mind. I have posted it in English and I think the large size helps. If it isn't ok just PN me.



On the other hand the Ukrainian attempt to close down the border with Russia has faced severe setbacks with (Pro)Russian attacks hitting the quite isolated units there.

[carl]

Now I see your point: when Ukrainian army is actually killing Ukrainian citizens - it's OK, if, hypothetically, Russian army would be killing Ukrainian citizens - it' won't be OK. It sounds outlandish, but explains very much of your comments.

Ah, mirhond. Still in there pitching. I hope you guys are getting extra pay because the siloviki are giving you not much to work with.

If you come on over to this side, you'll get paid in dollars you know. We can use guys with such stick-to-it-iveness,

[OUTLAW 09]

Now I see your point: when Ukrainian army is actually killing Ukrainian citizens - it's OK, if, hypothetically, Russian army would be killing Ukrainian citizens - it' won't be OK. It sounds outlandish, but explains very much of your comments.

come on comrade mirhond---are you indicating that Russians killing no actually slaughtering 298 equals what comrade? what about those "zealous Christians of yours" that stole 36 bodies which by the way did not make it to Donetsk that you "claimed" would happen.

and what about those burial rituals you spoke about---if rituals cover stealing credit cards and Smart phones off of dead bodies I guess you could call that Christian rituals but your argument was that the poor Cossacks all have PTSD from some much torturing and killing of Ukrainians who disagree with them

right now I have counted over 15 "stories" coming out of Moscow and Putin's mouths that point the finger at you and you fallacies.

noticed when you critique people you tend to overlook what was commented---noticed you failed to comment on the multiple photos geo located inside the Ukraine of Russian mercenaries driving around a Buk---go back and read kaur's links and weep my friend because you blew past the truth again but then again truth is not your strong point since the shot down my friend.

fallacies are truths --truths are lies thus your fallacies are lies comrade mirhond

[OUTLAW 09]

now comrade really not so informed Russian expert mirhond---

take the time and read the link ---notice that a Russian solider posted on his own Russian Facebook the fact that his artillery unit shelled Ukrainian positions inside the Ukraine all night--complete with photos of himself, his unit and his artillery.

http://en.inforesist.org/russian-sol...ukraine-photo/

so the Russians knew nothing about the Buk they delivered to the Russian mercenaries?---come on comrade mirhond your fallacies are falling apart

guess that must be a Russian thing---it is always the other guy---meaning stop thief oh he meant me but it cannot be me because I am the one holding the AK

you do remember the mercenary who was just captured by the Ukrainians in the middle of a fire fight who claimed the following:

1. I was not involved
2. I was not the unit commander
3. Some passer by just put the AK 47 in my hands===honesty that is what he told the Ukrainian National Guard---what a mercenary he was and he was Russian

what it is with you guys lying seems to be second nature comrade mirhond

[OUTLAW 09]

comrade mirhond---read and weep---seems your mercenaries had in fact thhe Buk---seems they cannot stop talking about the killing of 298 civilians and both Russia and they seem then to lie about it

read the article in it's entire length especially the last few paragraphs my friend and weep as your mercenaries are falling apart


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...le-357618.html

[JMA]

Did any thinking person ever doubt that Kuwait would be liberated?

Saddam didn't have nukes; Putin does. Crimea doesn't have oil, Kuwait does. Those factors may have some slight impact on the relative risk/reward calculations.

That wraps it up nicely, thank you, but to make sure I understand.

US foreign policy: driven by oil, scared s...less about nukes. Do I understand you correctly?

[OUTLAW 09]

JMA---here it comes-special Duma meeting scheduled--the Russians have been shelling the Ukraine with BM21s and artillery for several days now---have shot down a SU 25 from inside Russian airspace---has flooded the mercenaries with MANPADs and more tanks and at least one Buk and this from yesterday ----

http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/07/2...rding-ukraine/

The Russians are desperately trying to get into the Ukraine as "peacekeepers" in order to then demand that the Ukraine recognize the two Russian enclaves as separate from the rest of the Ukraine and everyone knows that where the Red flag is planted they never leave.

It seems to many inside the Ukraine that the provoking by the Russian IDF into the Ukraine was to provoke them to retaliate thus giving the Russian troops that are literally standing on the border the reason for crossing.

Will be interesting to see what the EU does then as well as the US.

[Dayuhan]

US foreign policy: driven by oil, scared s...less about nukes. Do I understand you correctly?

Driven by interests, concerned with threats... just like every other country's foreign policy. Oil isn't the only interest, but it's certainly a major one. Nuclear war isn't the only threat, but it's certainly a major one. I hope American policymakers - and Russian, Chinese, British, French, Israeli, Pakistani, and North Korean (did I miss any?) policymakers - are scared ####less of nuclear war. If they aren't, we are all in deep scheisse.

Saddam in Kuwait was a real threat to American interests, partly because of Kuwait's oil, but far more because of the direct and immediate threat to Saudi oil... which, like it or not, is a critical US interest. Russians in Crimea and messing in Ukraine are a direct threat to... what? What immediate and critical US interest involved?

[OUTLAW 09]

1. Why do you bother? You already gave an answer - ethnical cleansing, so relax and wait, Ukrainians will do it in due time.
2. You really believe Ukraine will get Crimea back?

comrade truly not so well informed mirhond---it appears that your "zealous Christians" that you defended due to their Christian "burial rituals" which really seems to me to be that they are just basic run of the mill criminals;

1. seem to be charging purchases to the credit cards of the dead owners---banks are seeing the charges come in

2. seem to be using those Smart phones you claimed were not be "looted" sorry meant to say "stolen"---hey they even answered them when called by the relatives of the dead

fallacies, fallacies, fallacies---they are all lies right comrade mirhond?

http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/...d_4012591.html

[kaur]

2 Russian regulars posted in vkontakte pics how they were shooting Ukraine army from Russian soil.

http://trinixy.ru/104130-rossiyskiy-...y-12-foto.html

On the last pic before map seems to be Зоопарк counter battery radar.

[OUTLAW 09]

2 Russian regulars posted in vkontakte pics how they were shooting Ukraine army from Russian soil.

http://trinixy.ru/104130-rossiyskiy-...y-12-foto.html

On the last pic before map seems to be Зоопарк counter battery radar.

Please do not let common Russian soldiers understand that pictures they take and post carry a geo tag which allowed bloggers at Ukraine@war to accurately date and geo tag their locations on the Ukrainian borders validating both the date and location.

[mirhond]

From RFE/RL,
Interview with a Ukrainian Separatist Fighter
http://www.businessinsider.com/inter...aratist-2014-7

Perfect example of explaining things away
Firstly, authors seem to be unable to ask cogent questions, like "You fought for what cause?" and "Is it your political beliefs which make you go there?"

Secondly, they have "anti-Ukrainian" concept in their blind spot. "Anti-Ukrainian" doesn't neccesarily means "pro-Russian" but ingoring this fact seems to be common desease of Western media, so it's pointless to blame authors for this.

[OUTLAW 09]

Perfect example of explaining things away
Firstly, authors seem to be unable to ask cogent questions, like "You fought for what cause?" and "Is it your political beliefs which make you go there?"

Secondly, they have "anti-Ukrainian" concept in their blind spot. "Anti-Ukrainian" doesn't neccesarily means "pro-Russian" but ingoring this fact seems to be common desease of Western media, so it's pointless to blame authors for this.

come on comrade not so well informed mirhond---and you are definitively not an expert even in Russian:

let's see your critique the authors for what?---let's see what your fallacy is---- because they did not formulate questions that you thought should be asked?---then why were you not there comrade mirhond?

anti Ukrainian does not mean proRussian so anti Ukrainian means exactly what then comrade mirhond?

let's see what this common disease (by the way use spell checker) of Western media is:

1. those poor proRussians that you and Putin are protecting under the term that Putin uses "self determination" that is what he said in the Duma right mirhond?-- had what ethnic discriminations going against them by the central government what you have been calling the junta, right Sector, nationals

a. they could speak Russian no laws against that
b. they could listen 24X7 to all Russian media inside the Ukraine and from Russia itself---that is where one problem began as it was pure propaganda
c. they had their own political party--the Party of Regions
d. they were in the SBU and local police and yes even in the UA
e. they could travel to Russia unrestricted and with no visa
f. they could even have Russian passports
g. they could buy all the Russia language newspapers in the world at their neighborhood store
h. and they had and still have access to all those truth speaking Russian journalists and camera teams that are getting in the way of those fire fights so film footage goes immediately where comrade mirhond straight to Russia One

BUT your and Putin's major complaint is what---the national language was not Russian but they reside in the Ukraine right comrade mirhond?

so uniformed comrade mirhond---just where was the shoe pinching the "poor oppressed ethnic Russians" that you and Putin keep talking about?

Then the western media "saw" the dead bodies being sooo wellll taken care of by your "zealous Christians with the burial rituals" which seemed to mean all the valuables of the dead are now mine---great concept there comrade mirhond.

Then they heard the voice intercepts of the talkative mercenaries and oh yes the Russian pilot who asked permission to shot down a Ukrainian aircraft which is actually an act of war.

Then all those modern not issued to the UA Russian weapons systems that are crossing the "enhance border security".

Then they finally woke up to the massive amounts of what did you call comrade mirhond "volunteers" what the west calls mercenaries and or war tourist carrying Russian Federation passports and crossing that from Putin famous "enhanced border security" like rats travelling through cheese.

Then they see the artillery shelling and Grad shellings from Russian soil on video and on Russian soldier social media sites---by the way all valid and verified.

so again non informed and certainly not an expert mirhond---what was your complaint again---a little louder comrade we still do not hear you state anything that is a valid "fallacy".

NOW back to the interview---you critique the questions--BUT overlooked the key question---he answered as follows---yes there was an mercenary group there and they had a Buk---wonder where that Buk ame from comrade? he even went on to state they had captured one but it was damaged thus unusable---but wait the Russia/Putin stated it was a SU25 that shot down the plane, then a Ukrainian Buk system, then a US satellite, then a mystery "spy plane" then those suspicious acting Ukrainian ATC guys ---my god comrade mirhond the stories never seem to end do they?

AND at the end of the interview he displayed "buyers remorse".

OH comrade mirhond the same mercenary or ex Alpha leader thus Ukrainian said the next day I did not do that interview nor said what I said---but my friend it was already on video and broadcast to the world.

again comrade what is the difference between a Russian mercenary and a jihadi---jihadi's know when not to be in a video and when not to use their cells---Russian mercenaries on the other love the publicity---must be an ego thing.

drip, drip, drip the truth always comes through my friend.

[OUTLAW 09]

comrade not so informed mirhond---want to take a swing at answering---yes rebutting the article below by the USA JCoS.

do not get into a blistering propaganda rant---honestly try to answer his comments. I know it might be hard but it is a good intellectual exercise.

here goes comrade mirhond---

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-igniting...041315317.html

[OUTLAW 09]

so comrade not informed mirhond---is this how you envisoned those "zealous Christian volunteers" "helping their fellow ethnic Russians"?

drip, drip, drip comrade mihond the truth always comes out.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...ty-357837.html

[OUTLAW 09]

so comrade not informed mirhond---this is what Putin called his attempt at influencing the Russian mercenaries and his assistance in the air crash investigation.

come on comrade---his words are not even believe anymore as his actions do not speak the truth does it comrade mirhond

The U.S. mission to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe expressed disappointment on July 24 when the Russian respresentative to the body only allowed a small group of international observers to two small checkpoints along its border, each a few hundred meters wide along a land border of nearly 2,000 kilomers in length.

“Let us be perfectly clear—this will not provide any real accounting of Russia’s massive flows of illegal arms, funding, and personnel,” Ambassador Daniel Baer stated. “Nor will this fig leaf provide an assurance to those mourning the tragedy of flight MH17 that Russia is doing anything to stop its illegal flow of arms and other support to separatists in eastern Ukraine.”

Russia continues to violate Ukraine’s airspace, the Border Guard Service added. Four times on the evening of July 22 Russian military helicopters and drones flew into Ukraine by as deep as 500 meters.

There is allegedly a military staging area in Novocherkassk, Rostov Oblast. Supplies include T-64 tanks, Grad multiple-rocket launchers, various armored personnel carriers equipped with cannons, Buk advanced radar-guided surface-to-air systems, shoulder-fired rocket launchers as well as sniper rifles, mines, grenades and automatic weapons.

[OUTLAW 09]

Seems that two can play the game of guerrilla warfare and it has caught the Russian mercenaries off guard:

In the Donetsk and Luhansk regions local guerrilla units have destroyed more than 20 militants, said the Adviser to the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine Zorian Shkiryak, reports UkrInform.

«Unknown patriots, who had formed groups to resist the enemy directly in the rear, in recent days killed more than 20 terrorists,» — said Shkiryak.

According to him the terrorist organisation LPR has already announced a reward for the head of local partisans, the amount of which is increasing by 5k EUR every day.

«Now militants move mostly in groups because when they appear on the streets alone, that may fall under the scope of partisans,» — said the Advisor.

To a question about where the guerrilla groups get their arms from, Shkiryak answered that after destroying terrorists the patriots take their arms.

«We know that there are snipers in the temporarily occupied by terrorists towns and they shoot the scam,» — added the Minister’s Advisor.

According to him, appearance of guerrilla groups in the eastern regions of Ukraine is caused in particular by the fact that people saw «the shameful essence of separatism, Russism and Russian terrorism» and give their own answer to it.

[Dayuhan]

Seems that two can play the game of guerrilla warfare and it has caught the Russian mercenaries off guard:

In the Donetsk and Luhansk regions local guerrilla units have destroyed more than 20 militants, said the Adviser to the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine Zorian Shkiryak, reports UkrInform.

«Unknown patriots, who had formed groups to resist the enemy directly in the rear, in recent days killed more than 20 terrorists,» — said Shkiryak.

According to him the terrorist organisation LPR has already announced a reward for the head of local partisans, the amount of which is increasing by 5k EUR every day.

«Now militants move mostly in groups because when they appear on the streets alone, that may fall under the scope of partisans,» — said the Advisor.

To a question about where the guerrilla groups get their arms from, Shkiryak answered that after destroying terrorists the patriots take their arms.

«We know that there are snipers in the temporarily occupied by terrorists towns and they shoot the scam,» — added the Minister’s Advisor.

According to him, appearance of guerrilla groups in the eastern regions of Ukraine is caused in particular by the fact that people saw «the shameful essence of separatism, Russism and Russian terrorism» and give their own answer to it.

Is there any independent confirmation of this?

[OUTLAW 09]

Is there any independent confirmation of this?

Dayuhan---am watching about four different sites and this is the first mention---the site that released it has great contacts to the Ukrainian Security Serive and the Army.

It is interesting in that the Russian mercenary concept was to force the Ukrainian NG and Army to fight street to street ie the good old days of Chechen with the civilian loses bing high thus Russia would step in a a peacekeeping military and we all know that were the Russian Army lands it does not leave.

Interesting has been the approach by the Ukrainian Army and NG---one of encirclement and cutting off of the Russian supply lines on that made famous by Putin's own comments "enhanced security border" that is like Swiss cheese.

This has resulted in a large number of the smaller outlaying towns and villages coming back under control of the government who then sends in immediately relief items, food, bread and water and reestablished military police street security.

This article does not surprise me--the Ukrainians do have a respectable SF unit, good airborne units, and former Alpha team personnel who remained loyal and who are capable of this type of actions.

Actually when you think about it ---it works well meaning small 2,3,4 man teams working their way into cities, hiding, sniping and ambushing and more importantly reconning and passing back info to the other units--does make for an unhealthy work environment causing the mercenaries to put more men in harms way just to patrol and makes them look over their shoulders--a French partisan tactic in Paris against the Germans.

It is really hard to defend against.