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Thread: PETA/ELF: Animal & Environmental Extremists and Homeland Security

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    Council Member reed11b's Avatar
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    Default PETA/ELF: Animal & Environmental Extremists and Homeland Security

    My personal experience w/ state and local law enforcement relating to GWOT can be summed up by the response I saw at a terrorism class in Portland for LEOs. The officers had very little to say or add as we talked about international terror organizations, but when the topic of "animal rights" groups came up, the officers had a great deal of comments and questions. Afterwards in the group planning piece, the officers could only think about how they were going to use this new information to catch these eco-terrorists. I walked away very disheartened to learn that a lot of "homeland defense" money was going to be wasted tracking down what were essentially petty vandals. Oversight and training is needed.
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    Last edited by davidbfpo; 09-03-2008 at 08:22 PM. Reason: Over-site changed to oversight.

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    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reed11b View Post
    My personal experience w/ state and local law enforcement relating to GWOT can be summed up by the response I saw at a terrorism class in Portland for LEOs. The officers had very little to say or add as we talked about international terror organizations, but when the topic of "animal rights" groups came up, the officers had a great deal of comments and questions. Afterwards in the group planning piece, the officers could only think about how they were going to use this new information to catch these eco-terrorists. I walked away very disheartened to learn that a lot of "homeland defense" money was going to be wasted tracking down what were essentially petty vandals. Oversight and training is needed.
    Reed

    You're kidding, right? Earth Firsters, ELF (Earth Liberations Front) and PETA are the largest active terrorist group(s) in CONUS.

    Petty vandals? ELF alone has caused BILLIONS of dollars of damage in the last decade and have killed and seriously injured people in terrorist attacks.

    The Portland area is the epicenter of ELF at the current time. The last time we convoyed through the Portland area, a bunch of construction equipment was in flames from an ELF attack.

    I guess some people's "petty vandals" are actually other people's murderous terrorists....

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    Moderator Steve Blair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    You're kidding, right? Earth Firsters, ELF (Earth Liberations Front) and PETA are the largest active terrorist group(s) in CONUS.

    Petty vandals? ELF alone has caused BILLIONS of dollars of damage in the last decade and have killed and seriously injured people in terrorist attacks.

    The Portland area is the epicenter of ELF at the current time. The last time we convoyed through the Portland area, a bunch of construction equipment was in flames from an ELF attack.

    I guess some people's "petty vandals" are actually other people's murderous terrorists....
    Gotta agree with this one. I suspect one reason they don't show up more is that they are both decentralized and can piggyback onto a fair amount of celebrity support.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Blair View Post
    Gotta agree with this one. I suspect one reason they don't show up more is that they are both decentralized and can piggyback onto a fair amount of celebrity support.
    Add me to the list of agreement.
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    Council Member reed11b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    You're kidding, right? Earth Firsters, ELF (Earth Liberations Front) and PETA are the largest active terrorist group(s) in CONUS.

    Petty vandals? ELF alone has caused BILLIONS of dollars of damage in the last decade and have killed and seriously injured people in terrorist attacks.

    The Portland area is the epicenter of ELF at the current time. The last time we convoyed through the Portland area, a bunch of construction equipment was in flames from an ELF attack.

    I guess some people's "petty vandals" are actually other people's murderous terrorists....
    Please cite your sources that people have been murdered. All I can find is vandalism actions. Federal crimes? Yep, Terrorism (AKA crimes against people)? How? Murder for political purpose and vandalism for political purpose are different, period. Homeland defense is to stop a MAJOR terror attack, not to solve states or even inter-state criminal problems. There is no evidence that even the whackos at Peta and ELF would try to make a major attack against the citizenry, say by smuggling in a nuclear or biological device, but there are lots of organizations that would. Those are the people I am worried about. Do I think ELF and PETA whackos should be arrested for criminal vandalism, Yes, but not with homeland security funds.
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    Last edited by davidbfpo; 09-04-2008 at 07:10 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by reed11b
    Please site your sources that people have been murdered. All I can find is vandalism actions. Federal crimes? Yep, Terrorism (AKA crimes against people)? How? Murder for political purpose and vandalism for political purpose are different, period. Homeland defense is to stop a MAJOR terror attack, not to solve states or even inter-state criminal problems. There is no evidence that even the whackos at Peta and ELF would try to make a major attack against the citizenry, say by smuggling in a nuclear or biological device, but there are lots of organizations that would. Those are the people I am worried about. Do I think ELF and PETA whackos should be arrested for criminal vandalism, Yes, but not with homeland security funds.
    Reed
    Homeland defense activities are meant to detect, deter, disrupt, prevent and/or mitigate any terrorist act - not just major terror attacks. If you dismiss PETA and ELF simply because they are not likely to attempt an attack using WMD, then you are also dismissing quite a large spectrum of real threats from a variety of transnational terrorists.

    Just as those responsible for homeland security have the duty to anticipate the realization of worst-case scenario threats to the US, they also have the responsibility to deal with what actually exists on our doorstep. Domestic terrorism - not just homegrown radical jihadis - is a real threat, and PETA/ELF and spin-off animal/eco extremists are a piece of it.

    Animal extremists have been getting very personal in the past year, targeting the residences of university researchers with arson and making direct threats to several research personnel. Threats of death and violence have significantly increased since early last year, with a concurrent drop in vandalism type crimes. Although no one has been murdered yet, the nature of the personal threats being made, the improvised incendiary devices that have been used at several scenes (causing property damage as part of the death threat), and the cross-state lines operations of the bad guys make them a legitimate focus of homeland security efforts on the west coast.

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    Council Member reed11b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedburgh View Post
    Animal extremists have been getting very personal in the past year, targeting the residences of university researchers with arson and making direct threats to several research personnel. Threats of death and violence have significantly increased since early last year, with a concurrent drop in vandalism type crimes. Although no one has been murdered yet, the nature of the personal threats being made, the improvised incendiary devices that have been used at several scenes (causing property damage as part of the death threat), and the cross-state lines operations of the bad guys make them a legitimate focus of homeland security efforts on the west coast.
    I have not seen any documentation on the personal threats, however, if this is true, then yes, I feel that they would qualify as a homeland security issue. Thanks for knowledge. Be aware that at the time of the training that I attended however, this was not an issue that was brought up or discussed, only their acts of vandalism.
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    Last edited by davidbfpo; 09-04-2008 at 07:10 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Council Member CR6's Avatar
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    It's been in the news in the past month

    Feldheim and the unidentified faculty member who received the threatening message were named on pamphlets that were left on a stack of newspapers in a downtown Santa Cruz coffee shop last Tuesday, Clark said. The unsigned pamphlets at Caffe Pergolesi, which printed 13 researchers' pictures and addresses, called them murderers and torturers and said, "Animal abusers everywhere beware."

    The name of the researcher whose car was bombed was not on the pamphlets, Clark said.

    The attacks may mark an escalation in a series of protests against UC researchers that prompted a Los Angeles Superior Court judge to issue a temporary restraining order against three animal rights groups in February.

    In January, a Molotov cocktail exploded on a UCLA researcher's porch. A month later, six people in masks tried to force their way into the home of a UC Santa Cruz researcher and hit her husband on the head, police said.

    And at UC Berkeley, officials said 24 animal researchers and seven staffers have been harassed in recent months, with some homes and cars vandalized.
    Definitely a DHS issue.
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    Council Member wm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    You're kidding, right? Earth Firsters, ELF (Earth Liberations Front) and PETA are the largest active terrorist group(s) in CONUS.

    Petty vandals? ELF alone has caused BILLIONS of dollars of damage in the last decade and have killed and seriously injured people in terrorist attacks.

    The Portland area is the epicenter of ELF at the current time. The last time we convoyed through the Portland area, a bunch of construction equipment was in flames from an ELF attack.

    I guess some people's "petty vandals" are actually other people's murderous terrorists....
    Amen. Ever see what kind of damage a railroad spike, secretly embedded in a Douglas Fir, can cause to a logger when his chain saw hits it without warning?
    Ranks closely to IEDs in my book.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    You're kidding, right? Earth Firsters, ELF (Earth Liberations Front) and PETA are the largest active terrorist group(s) in CONUS.

    Petty vandals? ELF alone has caused BILLIONS of dollars of damage in the last decade and have killed and seriously injured people in terrorist attacks.

    The Portland area is the epicenter of ELF at the current time. The last time we convoyed through the Portland area, a bunch of construction equipment was in flames from an ELF attack.

    I guess some people's "petty vandals" are actually other people's murderous terrorists....
    I think those numbers are a bit high. In 2002, the FBI estimated that "the ALF/ELF have committed more than 600 criminal acts in the United States since 1996, resulting in damages in excess of 43 million dollars." During 2005 Senate hearings,
    "Senate Environment Committee Chairman James Inhofe estimated the cost of damages from militant environmental and animal rights supporters at more than $110 million in the past decade."

    PETA has supported so-called "direct action," but has rarely engaged in it itself. Some PETA activists are clearly Animal Liberation Front supporters/sympathizers, however (although some radical environmentalists accuse PETA of being too soft-line).

    Amen. Ever see what kind of damage a railroad spike, secretly embedded in a Douglas Fir, can cause to a logger when his chain saw hits it without warning?
    Ranks closely to IEDs in my book.
    I'm only aware of one incident where tree-spiking caused significant injury, back in 1987 (to a saw-mill operator). Of course, once is one too many.

    This is in no way to condone such actions, which I think are both reprehensible and politically counter-productive. I do think, however, that it is important to be clear about the magnitude of the threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reed11b View Post
    My personal experience w/ state and local law enforcement relating to GWOT can be summed up by the response I saw at a terrorism class in Portland for LEOs. The officers had very little to say or add as we talked about international terror organizations, but when the topic of "animal rights" groups came up, the officers had a great deal of comments and questions. Afterwards in the group planning piece, the officers could only think about how they were going to use this new information to catch these eco-terrorists. I walked away very disheartened to learn that a lot of "homeland defense" money was going to be wasted tracking down what were essentially petty vandals. Oversight and training is needed.
    Reed
    If I were a bad guy form a group that the United States has put on their watch list what could I do to attack US. I could make contact with one of these ECO terrorists groups and have them do my dirty work for me.

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Eco terror in alliances?

    BR0387,

    You asked:
    If I were a bad guy form a group that the United States has put on their watch list what could I do to attack US. I could make contact with one of these ECO terrorists groups and have them do my dirty work for me.
    There are ample references to extremist groups forming alliances with other extremists groups, notably via the Palestinian cause in the 1970-1980's, such as the Japanese Red Army:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Red_Army

    Plus extremist groups trying to use criminal gangs, primarily for non-violent support, notably forged documents, travel and acquiring weapons. Such as the group in Spain responsible for the Atocha bombings, who traded drugs for explosives.

    There are two key points: is there trust and does this stretch as far as undertaking 'dirty work'. IMHO extremists if identified as such are rarely trusted by criminal gangs and extremists fear exposure - as that is what criminals do "snitch".

    I doubt that any "eco" group would want such a link, let alone do "dirty" work. Infiltration by the extremist into "eco" groups to gain members that is a possibility, remember "clean skins" may be rare if LE know the groups.
    davidbfpo

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