Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Global Attitudes to 9/11

  1. #1
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    1,602

    Default Global Attitudes to 9/11

    www.worldpublicopinion.org

    International Poll: No Consensus On Who Was Behind 9/11

    September 10, 2008


    A new WorldPublicOpinion.org poll of 17 nations finds that majorities in only nine of them believe that al Qaeda was behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States.

    In no country does a majority agree on another possible perpetrator, but in most countries significant minorities cite the US government itself and, in a few countries, Israel. These responses were given spontaneously to an open-ended question that did not offer response options.

    On average, 46 percent say that al Qaeda was behind the attacks while 15 percent say the US government, seven percent Israel, and seven percent some other perpetrator. One in four say they do not know.

    ...

    Even in European countries, the majorities that say al Qaeda was behind 9/11 are not overwhelming. Fifty-six percent of Britons and Italians, 63 percent of French and 64 percent of Germans cite al Qaeda. However, significant portions of Britons (26%), French (23%), and Italians (21%) say they do not know who was behind 9/11. Remarkably, 23 percent of Germans cite the US government, as do 15 percent of Italians.

    Publics in the Middle East are especially likely to name a perpetrator other than al Qaeda. In Egypt 43 percent say that Israel was behind the attacks, as do 31 percent in Jordan and 19 percent in the Palestinian Territories. The US government is named by 36 percent of Turks and 27 percent of Palestinians. The numbers who say al Qaeda was behind the attacks range from 11 percent in Jordan to 42 percent in the Palestinian Territories.

    The only countries with overwhelming majorities citing al Qaeda are the African countries: Kenya (77%) and Nigeria (71%). In Nigeria, a large majority of Muslims (64%) also say that al Qaeda was behind the attacks (compared to 79% of Nigerian Christians).

  2. #2
    Council Member Adam L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    NYS
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Brynen View Post
    The statistics are about what I would expect. Still, I never can quite get my head around why there is such a desire to deny what happened. Even here in the US it is unbelievable the amount of people who are into these conspiracy theories. I'm tired of people telling me the hole in the pentagon was too small for an airplane to have crashed into it. You wouldn't believe how effective showing them them scale drawings of the building and the plane is. I remember listening to Rutherford on September 11 a few years ago when I was in Calgary. Lots of people were calling in with conspiracy theories, etc. I remember one caller calling in and claiming that the plane would have made a bigger hole. I remember Rutherford saying, (something like this) "I don't know if you understand just how big the building is. Three planes could fit wingtip to wingtip on one side of the building." The guy really just didn't get (or bother researching) how big the building is. I always find it somewhat ironic that construction began on the Pentagon September 11, 1941. I know this is a tangent and has been off point, but I really find it interesting how being ignorant to such details can effect peoples opinions so much.

    I miss Rutherford and Breakenridge. They were among the few shows anywhere that really report and discuss the news.

    Adam L
    Last edited by Adam L; 09-11-2008 at 05:32 AM.

  3. #3
    Council Member AmericanPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    "Turn left at Greenland." - Ringo Starr
    Posts
    965

    Default

    Just my personal opinion, but I think part of the cause for the problem you cite Adam is that we're an internally informationally-insulated culture (say that three times fast ). We weren't content with simply gating our communities; part of that habit has reached into public discourse.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

  4. #4
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The State of Partachia, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean
    Posts
    3,947

    Default Is anyone really surprised?

    A new WorldPublicOpinion.org poll of 17 nations finds that majorities in only nine of them believe that al Qaeda was behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States.
    ...and bear in mind this is probably with the full knowledge that OBL and AQ have taken credit for the attack.

    People don't believe things because of evidence or "truth". People believe things because it benefits them to do so. Here lies one of the gaping holes in the ideas underpinning "information operations," or "military influence."

    If perception is reality, then the reality has to be recognised as one beyond any collective control, unless you are prepared to use apply some type of coercive pressure so that those you seek to effect, do so because they have no other choice.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

  5. #5
    Council Member Adam L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    NYS
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanPride View Post
    Just my personal opinion, but I think part of the cause for the problem you cite Adam is that we're an internally informationally-insulated culture (say that three times fast ). We weren't content with simply gating our communities; part of that habit has reached into public discourse.
    Most people today do not feel "safe" unless they are not only physically safe, but ignorant enough to feel secure. This ignorance allows them to feel safe by having a very simplistic view of the world that they can comprehend. From this they are able to gain a sense of security because they now are able to feel as though they can in some way have some control over, or way of reacting to, the world. Today, the vast amount of these people are transforming public discourse into something more in tune with their world view. Is that what you are getting at?

    Adam L

  6. #6
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    1,602

    Default

    I'm rather intrigued by some of the contrasts--why are Mexicans less likely than Palestinians (for example) to believe that al-Qa'ida was responsible? Why do more French than Brits believe the US? (etc)


  7. #7
    Council Member Van's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Posts
    414

    Default

    It astounds me. An American medical doctor has lectured me on how the U.S. government "was behind 9/11", needlessly multiplying entities, and boldly assuming competence and perfect secrecy on the part of the U.S. Government (the one that can't even cover up mislaid nukes...). I got so fed up with his self-congratulatory nonsense and proud prounouncements that he was privy to the 'real' story that I lost my temper a little. I looked him square in the eye and asked him why he couldn't accept that three dozen third-world scumbags with box cutters and bad personal hygiene changed the Manhattan skyline.

    The reaction was remarkable. He started howling that there was no way this could be the case.

    <sigh> I fear for the Republic.

  8. #8
    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Wonderland
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    My favorite conspiracy theory is "Where did the plane go that hit the Pentagon?"

    My response: "The same place that Payne Stewart's plane went".

    Some people don't want to believe how insubstantial modern aircraft really are....

  9. #9
    Council Member Adam L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    NYS
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    My favorite conspiracy theory is "Where did the plane go that hit the Pentagon?"

    My response: "The same place that Payne Stewart's plane went".

    Some people don't want to believe how insubstantial modern aircraft really are....
    Good point. People don't understand how the material react to the crash. First, most of the composites all but desintegrate in an impact (any Indy Racing fan would know this.) (At a minimum they turn into very small and jagged shards.) Second, the jet fuel is more than hot enough to get the aluminum burning. If I remember correctly, aircraft aluminum has a high magnesium content.

    Adam L

  10. #10
    Council Member Adam L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    NYS
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Brynen View Post
    I'm rather intrigued by some of the contrasts--why are Mexicans less likely than Palestinians (for example) to believe that al-Qa'ida was responsible? Why do more French than Brits believe the US? (etc)
    I think the Palestinians would like to believe that al-Qai'da was responsible. Sort of a pride/bragging rights thing. The Mexicans don't really get any pride or bragging rights if al-Qai'da was really responsible.

    Adam L

  11. #11
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The State of Partachia, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean
    Posts
    3,947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Brynen View Post
    I'm rather intrigued by some of the contrasts--why are Mexicans less likely than Palestinians (for example) to believe that al-Qa'ida was responsible?
    Well you may want to ask why more folk in Egypt and Jordan (two countries with peace treaties with Israel and to which most Israelis can travel) believe Israel was responsible, than the Israeli occupied or isolated Palestinians.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

  12. #12
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    1,602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William F. Owen View Post
    Well you may want to ask why more folk in Egypt and Jordan (two countries with peace treaties with Israel and to which most Israelis can travel) believe Israel was responsible, than the Israeli occupied or isolated Palestinians.
    Yes, the contrast with Jordan is particularly striking, given that half of Jordanians are themselves Palestinian. I did wonder a bit about the polling reliability because of that.

  13. #13
    Council Member jkm_101_fso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Kabul
    Posts
    325

    Default What's up with the Turks?

    Of all nations that were polled, the Turks had the highest percentage that believe the U.S. Government was behind 9/11?

    Not sure how to interpret that.

    They give us entirely too much credit.

    It took FEMA five days to get water to the Superdome...(so I heard)
    Sir, what the hell are we doing?

  14. #14
    Council Member pcmfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    62

    Default

    I was in Egypt about a week after 91101 and recall that the English language papers at that early date were already calling the attacks a Mossad operation. Given that the majority of the hijackers (and current AQSL) were from Egypt and KSA, it's not a suprise that there is major denial there.

  15. #15
    Council Member bourbon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    903

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jkm_101_fso View Post
    Of all nations that were polled, the Turks had the highest percentage that believe the U.S. Government was behind 9/11?

    Not sure how to interpret that.
    Turkey has had its share of conspiracies in recent history. The Susurluk scandal and its ensuing investigations brought "Deep State" conspiracies into the limelight, and I think really shocked the country. There are credible reports that Turkish Hezbollah was created and funded by the military, as well as military and intelligence services engaging in psuedo-operations and false-flag attacks in a "strategy of tension". All this interwoven into alleged stay-behind networks --the so called "Gladio" and contraguerilla, and I can see why Turks could be prone to believe a conspiracy theory that the U.S. Government was behind 9/11. This is in addition to a large increase in anti-American sentiment in Turkey.

    This is not to say that I believe that "the U.S. Government was behind 9/11", however, I do question the accuracy of the 9/11 Commission and question some of the narrative about 9/11 and al-Qaeda. There are too many discrepancies and unanswered questions I have, for me not to be skeptical. Reading Peter Lance's 1000 Years for Revenge and Triple Cross really stripped away any faith that I could put into the official line.
    Last edited by bourbon; 09-12-2008 at 06:34 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Intelligence: failures, gaps and knowledge gaps
    By SWJED in forum Intelligence
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-04-2017, 03:29 PM
  2. How Al-Queda may evolve, or end.
    By SWJED in forum Adversary / Threat
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 07-22-2008, 02:46 AM
  3. "The Global Counter Insurgency" Some Thoughts
    By Gian P Gentile in forum Global Issues & Threats
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-19-2008, 01:50 AM
  4. Baby Boomers and the 9/11 Generation
    By SWJED in forum Politics In the Rear
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 12-31-2007, 12:44 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •