Marine Combat Hunter Program

[selil]

I spent $460 on a pair of Steiners back in 87 as a Sergeant.....that should pretty much tell you howI feel about every Marine being issued a pair of binos.

If you like the Steiners you should find a pair of Vortex Vultures or one of their other high end binos.

I do think that the sniping, hunting, tracking aspects of training soldiers and marines is over rated. I've got lots of acquaintances that can sneak up on cervids who are way more attached to their environment than any human. I do think that culture in the Americas is being eroded much like it has in Europe.

[Ken White]

...I do think that the sniping, hunting, tracking aspects of training soldiers and marines is over rated. I've got lots of acquaintances that can sneak up on cervids who are way more attached to their environment than any human. I do think that culture in the Americas is being eroded much like it has in Europe.

to compensate for that erosion which is mostly due to urbanization?

[nichols]

to compensate for that erosion which is mostly due to urbanization?

No, too much time on internet forums

Sorry Ken....the door was wide open

[selil]

...to compensate for that erosion which is mostly due to urbanization?

I think urbanization and a lack of activity in rural sports is a large factor. Riding your mountain bike on rail right of ways is great exercise but it is not wood craft. You have to break past the forrest edge, get into the critter trails, and seek out your prey. Sorry if "prey" offends anybody, but your intent is to hunt down, and kill something.

A story not to offend or distract from the discussion...

I have twin 8 year old boys. We've been shooting archery since they were a right around 4. For the last few years we would go shoot 3d which is foam animals in a variety of woodland settings. They got pretty good and figuring out kill zones, picking the targets out of the terrain, etc.. But, I didn't realize how well until we were on a long trip.

Driving down the interstate in the morning I pointed out a few deer along the Interstate and said we might see a lot more. The two hyper-kinetic-bouncing-monsters sat totally still for hours watching for, FINDING, and determining distances. I don't think using my laser range finder I could have been any closer than they were getting.

Now when we hike through the wild-life preserve behind our house I have started showing them spore and even tracking critters. I'll likely take them to Texas this winter to hunt white tail and hawgs.

Just like my dad did.

[jcustis]

I am currently dealing with a tug of war over a suite of counter-IED / counter-sniper equipment that was developed and fielded by JIEDDO, with snipers in mind.

We currently own the gear, and are being told that we have to endure a redistribution based on the number of qualified snipers between us and another task force.

The funny thing is, the equipment can be used as an enabler for reconnaissance and surveillance missions in general as much as it may be for kinetic sniper activities (of which I can't fathom happening around our parts right now). Still, my opponents in the wrestling match are still clinging to the sniper bit, as if it were some magical dark art like someone mentioned earlier.

Just because JIEDDO "says so", don't necessarily make it so...

[William F. Owen]

Still, my opponents in the wrestling match are still clinging to the sniper bit, as if it were some magical dark art like someone mentioned earlier.

Dark art indeed. I am a "sniper sceptic", but a "close precision engagement" advocate. Some Snipers are their own worst enemy. They have used an entirely invented victim under dog status to pervert what is/was useful and carry it into a realm of creeping excellence.

If anyone really takes exception to my views, feel free to start another thread.

[jcustis]

Dark art indeed. I am a "sniper sceptic", but a "close precision engagement" advocate. Some Snipers are their own worst enemy. They have used an entirely invented victim under dog status to pervert what is/was useful and carry it into a realm of creeping excellence.

If anyone really takes exception to my views, feel free to start another thread.

Haha...Don't get me started about the snipers who whine about unit commanders who mis-employ them because they are "risk averse" or are simply ignorant of the ways of the sniper...

I always go back to my points of 1) you are often mis-employed because you can't effectively articulate yourself in terms of goals, recommendations, and objectives; 2) you often tend to be no-talent assclowns with a penchant for glossing over details even though your training in the art of planning is some of the best to be had; and 3) you aren't supermen, so come down off your high horse stud.

[selil]

The flip side of "dark arts" is that in an arena of "law of war" where proportionality and precision are hand in hand the sniper has a highly constrained mission. Since the sniper is by definition highly precise target selection must also be highly precise. If you have bad actors in an environment it may be much easier (and legal) to employ air-power or artillery with as much precision and less proportionality as suppression.

[nichols]

If you like the Steiners you should find a pair of Vortex Vultures or one of their other high end binos. .

Thanks for the info...but I'm married with three kids, I'm a Former Action Guy (FAG) that is more concerned about getting invisible line bi-focals

I do think that the sniping, hunting, tracking aspects of training soldiers and marines is over rated. I've got lots of acquaintances that can sneak up on cervids who are way more attached to their environment than any human. I do think that culture in the Americas is being eroded much like it has in Europe.

Good point, it really is about situational awareness. It's really easy to be distracted by the right hand as your opponent's left hand coldcocks you.

That is one of my fears concerning binos, scheme of manuever and other aspects of Daniel Boonery that causes people to miss the boat on opportunities.

Spending so much time on the binos that you miss the badguy coming up the left flank and kissing you on the right cheek. Not understanding the environmental situational awareness to the point where you don't know what to do so you throw away decision making and lock step in line with the scheme of manuever that was written before you crossed the LOD and probably didn't take into account the current situation that you find yourself in.