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Thread: Good Layman's guide to the financial crisis

  1. #141
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    Default Paper Money

    Done what research I plan to do. Looks like something similar to SS "Trust Fund":

    Federal Reserve Notes are printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP), a bureau of the Department of the Treasury.[3] The Federal Reserve Banks pay the BEP only the cost of printing the notes (about 4¢ a note), but to circulate the note as new currency rather than merely replacing worn notes, they must pledge collateral for the face value, primarily in Federal securities.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Note

    So, in one way or the other, you end up at a "step 7".

    Story on US Treasury-issued Notes is here.

    After the end of the gold standard in 1933, all types of issued currency (silver certificates, Federal Reserve Notes, and United States Notes) were redeemable only for silver. This ceased to be the case in 1963-4, during a time in which all U.S. currency (both coins and paper currency) was changed to fiat currency. At this point, the United States Note became obsolete and began to be removed from circulation. No more were issued after January 21, 1971.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Note

    See also, Treasury's explanations ("...no backing by anything..."):

    http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq...l-tender.shtml

  2. #142
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default There is no way I'd have ever been involved

    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    ...and Ken (who wrote the original SS statute).
    with that consumate Krupp / Bismarkian rip off of the American taxpayer. None.

    I can however remember how much more independent and self reliant people were before the tentacles of SS took hold in the late 50s after the first generation departed. Been downhill ever since...
    ... Are you younger guys willing to pay the freight when we hit step 7 ?
    I hope not. That's the only thing that's likely to introduce some fiscal sanity to DC.

    Because I have a Federal pension, my SS is reduced to about half the average payment -- I shouldn't be getting anything if it were properly means tested so I'm effectively ripping off Schmedlap and my kids to plunk money in said kids inheritance (unless I drink it up first... ). SS was a very bad idea to begin with, aimed at putting too-independent Americans in thrall to their government and it has morphed into a middle class vote buying scam. Criminal malfeasance on the part of a slew of Congroids over a good many years...
    ...If someone else has an objective explanation, please post it.
    All part of the Fed's plot to rule the world economy IAW there own view of who should have money and who should not...

    Thank Congress...

    And believe it or not, none of this is really off-thread. Regrettably. It isn't because it concerns how Congress acquires and spends tax dollars, a direct contributor to the current fiscal foolishness.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    So, a question for Schmedlap: you are of a later generation than JMM (now 66) and Slap (who is younger still - ca. 10 yrs or so) and Ken (who wrote the original SS statute). Are you younger guys willing to pay the freight when we hit step 7?
    I can only speak for myself, but I would be overjoyed if the new policy were as follows...
    - If you are 30 or younger as of today, you will never see one dime of SS benefits.
    - If you are 31 to 55 as of today, your benefits will be cut by your age of eligibility minus your current age, expressed as a percentage.
    - Those over 55 get the full benefit.
    - Everyone 25 or older as of today continues paying into the system until the last geezer eligible for it croaks.

    Yes, I'm willing to pay, so long as there is a light at the end of the tunnel. That light, ideally, is a giant sign reading, "the end." I guess I am so numbed to having the government take too much of my money and fritter it away on layabouts and lobbyists that I would be happy if the status quo changed from screwing me and then screwing the country to simply screwing me but helping the country.

  4. #144
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    Default Not a bad political platform ...

    but I suspect it may have to be tweaked by some give-up by the "geezers" as well. Nothing special in my mind, but I think the crunch will hit first in Medicare (as Ken has already said in a non-Bravo Sierra comment).

    So, I expect that some of the "geezers" who can afford it (not those who are at the edge now) will have to cough up more in Medicare premiums - I among them. That would have to be re-calculated each year.

    It would be better if everyone realized (and all the pols would say) that SS and Medicare are "pay as you go" programs - and end the BS about it. We would have been better off if, in the past, SS taxes had been reduced to what was needed for SS payments only.

    PS: still in law school ? If so, and if you care to respond, send a PM so as not to disrupt the thread.

  5. #145
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    you are turning into a Galbraithian.

    jmm99, I am a Galbraithian.....who was a physical economist vs. a monetarist. A physical economist understands the difference between wealthy and rich. Wealth is physical ability to produce goods and services that provide life support

    Money has NO value unless it can be used to purchase such goods and services. If you were on a desert island and had a pile of cash or gold for that matter it would not save your life. But if you had a water and electric plant,etc. you would be wealthy without any money. That is a critical difference in the two theories.

    That is why JKM makes the remark in his article that if the physical resources are not there to support the aging population money want matter!! If there are no nursing homes or hospitals all the money in the world will not help you. Make since? if you have the physical economy something will and can be used as money, if the situation is reversed you are in deep trouble.

    Remember the Arab Oil embargo's? No oil was being released by the ME so no amount of money would help you at all. But if we had a well planned physical economy that uses the physical resources we have in our country it wouldn't matter. We did this during WWII, why not now?

    How the money system would and has worked. The treasury should print the money interest FREE and fund productive projects that have a built in REPAYMENT mechanism and it does not need to be a tax, it can be a bill of some type like an electric bill. A good example was/is the TVA the Tennessee Valley Authority started by FDR with low federal financing and it was all paid back because everyone gets an electric bill each month. That is what JKM called the public purpose or public infrastructure spending the government should do during the time of recession or all the time for that matter. All the time would be better because as new technologies become available older ones could be phased out. Make sense?


    The best Reference on the difference between Fed notes vs Treasury notes happened during the Andrew Jackson administration when the Fed was going to be and was abolished!!! It was giving a 20 year charter when it was first created and Jackson fought and won against the bankers, of course the Bankers waited until his term was over and they started what was referred to as the 2nd national bank.

    Just think about it ALL bills are paid by TAXES so we created a private baking system that loans us our money plus interest they we have pay back to ourselves (the Taxpayers) and the private banks keep the interest??? That is crazy It needs to be changed back to the original constitutional law.

    Ref. History of 2nd National Bank.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_..._United_States
    Last edited by slapout9; 10-20-2008 at 01:07 AM. Reason: add stuff

  6. #146
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    Default Hey, Ken ...

    wouldn't know where to begin with post # 142. I think I agree with some of it (JC, maybe most of it ?) - and it is definitely on-topic.

    I do agree with the proposition that we should drink our kids' inheritances. My only problem is that I can't handle half a fifth of bourbon (figured you for the other half) anymore - if I woke up the next day, I would be a-wishin that I hadn't.

    I think maybe we should start listening to Schmedlap.

    PS: My limit for Sundays is a glass of wine at dinner and 2 shots (full shots) after. I am now at step 3.

  7. #147
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    This is cool FDR speech on how he dealt with home foreclosures...Telegraph Washington immediately of your situation...what a leader....Can we clone him?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXY7T...eature=related

  8. #148
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    Default Hey Slap, I'm an eclectic ...

    and not that much committed to fancy economic theory because too much of it is (1) not mathematically sound at its base premises (although it uses very provable formulas from those premises); and (2) is often divorced from the real world which I perceive and in which I live.

    Agreed: money, gold, crude oil (and you could name 1000s of other things) have no value, unless they can be applied to get something else needed to survive (1st goal) and live better (2nd goal - varies with the person as to what that means).

    Agreed: have to have a working physical economic system for anything to work at all. Could use barter (lots of people in the underground economy are doing just that today), but that is not very efficient for multi-party transactions. Don't really need money - could do it by accounting entries (which is what we are doing in large part today).

    Agreed: that a "well-planned" physical economy (and accounting system) is necessary - and is sufficient. The issue is who does the planning - if the government, I am off the ship and onto the desert island with necessary survival gear.

    Agreed: that Fed Res is an unnecesary step in the process. If all the banks want to get together and have a central bank which is unlinked in every way to the government, so be it. My understanding of how the Fed works is basically buying open-market government paper by writing a check on itself (neat, heh). It gets the bonds and the seller has a choice of a Fed Res account (an accounting entry) or taking payment in Fed Res notes. Treasury could do (and used to do) the same thing, without the mesne costs.

    Agreed: that some government programs (but certainly not all - and I suspect a minority) have a real benefit. TVA may well be one of them - I don't know that much about it, but it is in your backyard, so I'll accept your judgment unless proven wrong by facts. In any event, if you are going to spend $150B, don't give it in "tax rebate checks"; but spend it on infrastructure - agree with the Mike from Arkansas on that one.

    Agreed: we love Andrew Jackson (actually have studied him a bit - and the Taney SCOTUS which he in large part created); but I am totally biased because he was the first real Irish-American president (both parents born in the North of Ireland).

    Not sure about the exact economics of your last paragraph. The Fed Res balance sheets are discussed in Econ 101 (from my son's text of 20 years ago); but they aren't accompanied by the profit and loss statements. I don't know how the Fed Res accounts for its income, or what it is in $. It may use some form of fund accounting that ends up showing no profit or loss - but has to show "unused funds" ("profits") somewhere - that from my wife who did fund accounting for an NGO before she had to go on SS disability.

    ------------------------------------------
    My personal approach has been to not get involved with the "macro-economic program"; and focus on personal survival against whatever the idiots come up with. So, basic program was (1) get out of debt early, and not incur any except for current accounts; (2) have bought and paid for what we need to survive and live a comfortable, modest life; (3) continue to work to the extent physically and mentally able; and (4) have some liquid assets to meet emergencies - cuz, Slap, whatever you say, money at certain points does talk - and the rest walks.

    PS: - on FDR (actually in my time for 3 years), we agree and disagree - lots of pluses and lots of minuses. You and I would have to write a book to even start to discuss that complex man and his administrations.

  9. #149
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
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    A superb post in The Financial Times' Alphaville blog about where the true blame rests for the financial apocalypse:

    In defense of hedge funds

    The US Treasury - just like Lehman - has spent months holding onto the mantra that the banks are not to blame. Fear and fear alone was causing trouble for the banks, was the parroted line. The whole wrong-headed architecture of the Tarp was prefaced on the same worldview: more liquidity and more confidence was needed, not more capital ...

    It has taken Paulson two long weeks to come around to the idea that the banks need recapitalising. That’s two painful weeks to face up to the fact that actually, the banks’ problems were not mere fictions conjured by the scurrilous iconoclasts of Greenwich, CT, but were real, palpable, and destabilising.

    ...

    Firstly - on “providing a market for toxic instruments”. Let’s take mortgage-backed CDOs as an example, since they are the archetypal ‘toxic’ instrument at the heart of the current crisis. This explanation is a little simplified, but hopefully it catches the gist of the matter. It’s right to say, as Peston does, that hedge funds were often the happy buyers of the lowest tranches: the mezz and equity pieces that support above them a far greater number of AAA-rated senior tranches and are nominally considered the “toxic” pieces.
    Alas, the “toxicity” of CDOs is nothing to do with the equity or mezz pieces. The problem with CDOs is that the senior, AAA-rated pieces were mispriced. Consider: relatively speaking, who has lost more in the current market: buyers of BBB-rated equity pieces, who always knew what they were buying was risky, and got paid accordingly, or buyers of AAA-rated super-senior pieces, who thought the paper they were holding had a near-zero chance of defaulting? Answer: AAA ...

    Many in the market - particularly hedge funds - knew that the AAA CDO tranches were artificially secure and accordingly mispriced. There was, in technical parlance, a “correlation” problem waiting to happen in CDOs. Which is why the smart money stopped buying the senior pieces a long time ago. Banks still wanted to issue CDOs though - something they couldn’t do without any AAA tranche buyers. To keep the money-machine turning, they found otherways to shift the AAA. They kept it on their balance sheets and hid it with derivative contracts issued by monolines (negative basis trades). Or else they loaded the tranches into huge, opaque funds backed by commercial paper markets (ABCP conduits). These actions allowed the CDO market to truly develop into a bubble over 2006/07. Had the banks not have artificially created AAA buyers, many of the riskiest CDOs would never have been created.

    When defaults did eventually tick up and damage CDO structures in a far more violent way than predicted, these actions by the banks in artificially propping the AAA market had two profound effects. Firstly, those banks that had kept AAA-rated CDO pieces on their own balance sheets had to take huge writedowns and suffered from crippling capital impairment charges. No-one knew exactly how much bad AAA debt banks had hidden and thanks to shoddy reporting, it has taken 18 months to come clean. This has had a profound and lasting effect on market confidence. Secondly, those that had stuffed the AAA-rated tranches into funds backed by commercial paper, caused the fear to instantly spread to the highly conservative commercial paper (CP) market. Being one of the biggest and supposedly liquid markets in the world, this instantly turned the crisis into a systemic problem. And not a hedge fund in sight.
    Fraud and chicanery at the highest levels, not just amongst the swarms of mortgage brokers filling out false applications for subprime borrowers but in the offices of Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, my own employer Lehman Brothers, and Bear Stearns brought this on. Though, of course, whether any of this is actually illegal is dubious - much of the market for monoline insurance is nothing more than a regulatory dodge in order to speculate, for example. The regulatory holes have been opened by decades of investment banking money flowing to the White House and Congress, and even more so by the gentle hands of the person chosen to regulate, often doing stints in between i-banking gigs.

  10. #150
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    I particularly enjoyed this letter, excerpted on the front page of this weekend's Financial Times. Andrew Lahde ran a successful hedge fund that profited handsomely from anticipating the subprime collapse...

    Letter: Andrew Lahde, Ladhe Capital Management

    He writes:
    "On the issue of the U.S. Government, I would like to make a modest proposal. First, I point out the obvious flaws, whereby legislation was repeatedly brought forth to Congress over the past eight years, which would have reigned in the predatory lending practices of now mostly defunct institutions. These institutions regularly filled the coffers of both parties in return for voting down all of this legislation designed to protect the common citizen."
    Prior to that, he writes, in more entertaining fashion...

    "I was in this game for the money. The low hanging fruit, i.e. idiots whose parents paid for prep school, Yale, and then the Harvard MBA, was there for the taking. These people who were (often) truly not worthy of the education they received (or supposedly received) rose to the top of companies such as AIG, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers and all levels of our government. All of this behavior supporting the Aristocracy only ended up making it easier for me to find people stupid enough to take the other side of my trades. God bless America."
    ...
    "I have no interest in any deals in which anyone would like me to participate. I truly do not have a strong opinion about any market right now, other than to say that things will continue to get worse for some time, probably years. I am content sitting on the sidelines and waiting. After all, sitting and waiting is how we made money from the subprime debacle. I now have time to repair my health, which was destroyed by the stress I layered onto myself over the past two years, as well as my entire life – where I had to compete for spaces in universities and graduate schools, jobs and assets under management – with those who had all the advantages (rich parents) that I did not. May meritocracy be part of a new form of government, which needs to be established."

  11. #151
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    This is interesting.... what did Paulson know and when did he know it.... concerning mortgage fraud???Looks like about 2006.

    http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/rp/r...eLoanFraud.pdf
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 10-22-2008 at 08:32 PM. Reason: fix stuff - know not no

  12. #152
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
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    The ratings agencies got their day up on Capitol Hill in front of Henry Waxman and associated torturers. They were the ones who enabled the mispricing of AAA-rated derivatives.

    Kill quotes:

    Employees at Moody's Investors Service told executives that issuing dubious creditworthy ratings to mortgage-backed securities made it appear they were incompetent or ``sold our soul to the devil for revenue,'' according to e-mails obtained by U.S. House investigators.

    ...

    An e-mail that a S&P employee wrote to a co-worker in 2006, obtained by committee investigators, said, ``Let's hope we are all wealthy and retired by the time this house of cards falters.''

    ...

    Official #1: Btw (by the way) that deal is ridiculous.

    Official #2: I know right...model def (definitely) does not capture half the risk.

    Official #1: We should not be rating it.

    Official #2: We rate every deal. It could be structured by cows and we would rate it.

    ...

    Former Managing Director Jerome Fons, who worked at Moody's until August of 2007, says Moody's was focused on "maxmizing revenues," leading it to make the firm more "issuer friendly."

  13. #153
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tequila View Post
    The ratings agencies got their day up on Capitol Hill in front of Henry Waxman and associated torturers. They were the ones who enabled the mispricing of AAA-rated derivatives.

    Kill quotes:


    Absolutely scary

  14. #154
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Link to The Predator (Criminal State)

    http://www.motherjones.com/commentar...tor_state.html

  15. #155
    Council Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Default Bernanke is Fighting the Last War

    Bernanke Is Fighting the Last War

    'Everything works much better when wrong decisions are punished and good decisions make you rich.'

    by Brian Carney, WSJ

    Instead, we've been hearing for most of the past year about "systemic risk" -- the notion that allowing one firm to fail will cause a cascade that will take down otherwise healthy companies in its wake.

    Ms. Schwartz doesn't buy it. "It's very easy when you're a market participant," she notes with a smile, "to claim that you shouldn't shut down a firm that's in really bad straits because everybody else who has lent to it will be injured. Well, if they lent to a firm that they knew was pretty rocky, that's their responsibility. And if they have to be denied repayment of their loans, well, they wished it on themselves. The [government] doesn't have to save them, just as it didn't save the stockholders and the employees of Bear Stearns. Why should they be worried about the creditors? Creditors are no more worthy of being rescued than ordinary people, who are really innocent of what's been going on."

    It takes real guts to let a large, powerful institution go down. But the alternative -- the current credit freeze -- is worse, Ms. Schwartz argues.
    v/r

    Mike

  16. #156
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Did anybody watch 60 minutes last night? They had a good story about CDS(credit default swaps). In 1907 they considered GAMBLING and were declared illeagal. So the investment banker went to Congress and had the law changed saying they were not gambling...the rest is history. if you get the chance watch it.

  17. #157
    Council Member bourbon's Avatar
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    Default Two articles:

    The End, by Michael Lewis. Portfolio, Nov 11 2008.
    The era that defined Wall Street is finally, officially over. Michael Lewis, who chronicled its excess in Liar’s Poker, returns to his old haunt to figure out what went wrong.
    An exceptional article by Michael Lewis who can explain esoteric subjects, while making it readable and funny, better then any author out there.


    The SEC Scandal You Don’t Read About in the Papers, by Mark Mitchell. DeepCapture, November 12th, 2008.
    There was an article in The New York Times yesterday about the SEC’s disgraceful ruling that it will take no disciplinary action against the SEC cronies at the center of the Gary Aguirre scandal. Read through the Times’ false veneer of objectivity, and it seems that reporter Walt Bogdanich is trying to say that it’s pretty damn strange that a corrupt SEC has been allowed to adjudicate its own corruption.

    Stranger still, no other journalist has expressed outrage over this. Meanwhile, the nation’s mainstream media (The New York Times included) has yet to deliver a story describing the Aguirre scandal’s most important component – the bit that makes it the greatest scandal in the history of the SEC and which helps explain why the commission failed to stop a crime that later contributed to the near total collapse of the American financial system.

  18. #158
    Council Member bourbon's Avatar
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    Former SEC chairman Harvey Pitt on CNBC last night:
    “there’s a very simple solution…if you want to sell a stock short, you have to have a legally enforceable rule to produce that stock on settlement day. That’s all it takes.”

    “naked short selling is what’s causing a lot of the problems in the market.”

    "That's been the real problem...people in effect are just gambling, they're assuming the stock price will go down. They then spread false rumors to help the stock price go down. But they have no skin in the game because they haven't committed to produce the shares they purportedly are selling."
    h/t: DeepCapture

  19. #159
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    Very disturbing article in Business Week: Sex, Lies, and Subprime Mortgages.

    It tells tales of people who know nothing about the mortgage industry (including a high-school dropout working as a manicurist who went to work for a mortgage wholesaler and earned 7 figures), engaging in deliberate fraud on a massive scale. These are not high echelon financial bogeymen in smoke filled backrooms. These are the rank and file of the industry - the folks who live and work among us - working feverishly to falsify as many documents as possible on a daily basis. Why did they do it? Possible explanations: everyone else was doing it, you could get away with it, the money was great. Possible excuses: none. The saddest part - sadder than what it has done to our economy - is that the blame will be placed squarely on people at the top, even though the people at the bottom were adults knowingly engaging in unethical, illegal behavior.

  20. #160
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
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    Wrong. The blame belongs squarely at the top.

    The assorted unqualified losers who jumped onto the gravy train at Ameriquest and other assorted mortgage brokers that drove the subprime fiasco and committed fraud on a vast scale did not think this crap up themselves. They were the fringes of a cowboy industry set up to feed a vast demand for securitized loan products built on American mortgages.

    This demand was stoked and in part created by the people at the top - the investment banking industry, the hedge funds, the ratings agencies, the Federal Reserve under Greenspan - who all had an interest in pumping or ignoring the enormous derivatives bubble built on American real estate.

    The little fish are small fry. Most of them are nowadays as bankrupt as their victims. Sure, just like small-time corner boys selling crack and heroin, they knowingly commit terrible acts. But to vilify them in exclusion to the kingpins who created them, who supplied them, who enabled and protected them --- no way.

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