XM25 "good enough"

[sullygoarmy]

Looks like it could fill a nice nitch, especially in an urban environment.

[reed11b]

If they further this so that the warhead technology is useable by the M109 payload rifle, I will be very happy.
Reed

[SethB]

How useful would this be? The internet is full of speculation, and I've seen a lot of guys complain that they don't want it.

But then, I don't see how different it could be from a 40MM like the MGL that the Marines are using. Actually, it probably is more effective, since the 40MM is half fuse and expends something 80% of what energy it has on the ground.

[William F. Owen]

Infantry weapons to date have permitted fighters to shoot at or through an obstacle concealing enemy threats, but the Army for years has been trying to come up with a weapon to engage targets behind barriers without resorting to mortars, rockets or grenades -- all of which risk collateral damage

So the XM-25 is to address that specific application? This is problematic to put it mildly. One per fireteam?

[sullygoarmy]

So the XM-25 is to address that specific application? This is problematic to put it mildly. One per fireteam?

That's what I was thinking, one per fire team. Still a lot more information to gather but its application within an Urban or rugged environment sounds very valid to me. The ability to put precision fires just around or over a barrier to kill a hostile without having to a) level the wall (which Mk19s are great for) b) blindly fire indirect in a restricted environement or c) use a 40mm with a larger bursting radius and far less accuracy.

This thing, however, needs to be soldier proof and have the training ammunition available for the owners to become proficient in its employment during the train up.

[The Cuyahoga Kid]

That's what I was thinking, one per fire team. Still a lot more information to gather but its application within an Urban or rugged environment sounds very valid to me. The ability to put precision fires just around or over a barrier to kill a hostile without having to a) level the wall (which Mk19s are great for) b) blindly fire indirect in a restricted environement or c) use a 40mm with a larger bursting radius and far less accuracy.

This thing, however, needs to be soldier proof and have the training ammunition available for the owners to become proficient in its employment during the train up.

Just wondering with what you were describing above, would the XM25 be an fireteam member's primary weapon or would it be a secondary speciality weapon?

[reed11b]

So the XM-25 is to address that specific application? This is problematic to put it mildly. One per fireteam?

700m and the high probability of 25mm round varients (AP?), I think that it could answere some of the HE projection hole left by the 203, even if that is not it's stated mission.
Reed

[Coldstreamer]

who made points like this...but are there not significant Positive ID issues with an munition like this? If you can't see behind the defilade, you can't tell if there are women, children, hostages or wounded littering the trench/ditch/behind the wall/in the room etc. Which leaves you open to legal questions of due diligence.

Back in the day I would have thought this was awesome. For fighting the Soviet, the North Korean or general conventional war, it is. But I don't think this is a COIN weapon system - especially in urban areas. In campaign terms (and this was a very bitter pill for me to swallow), you're better of bringing in smoke and extracting yourself than you are dropping JDAMs if you can't guarantee you won't kill a family or a wedding party. Because the vital ground remains legitimacy - upon which we will win or lose. The only exception is when you simple can't extract because the Dushka's have you in a crossfire. But again, smoke, or precision fires onto PID firing points. The Local Nationals don't give a toss if you accidentally killed their retarded nephew. You killed him. And now there's a blood feud. Better to lose the odd battle and win the war...as the American Revolution taught us.

Stick to double taps to the head with a decent round. The only interesting rifles are accurate ones.

[Ken White]

Stick to double taps to the head with a decent round. The only interesting rifles are accurate ones.

We tend to forget that all too often in the rush to find an easier way...

Grenades -- 25mm, 30mm, 40mm, hand tossed or launched -- are indiscriminate weapons and often make more noise than they do actual damage. As you point out they often also do damage you'd be better off without. Time and a place for them, to be sure -- but those are rather limited. They are really defensive weapons with no place in the offense and of very little benefit in COIN, IW or UW operations.

[JMA]

...but are there not significant Positive ID issues with an munition like this?

The requirement for a positive ID before firing is the best reason why the leading Western countries (US, UK) should make more use of proxies to fight their wars for them.

[JMA]

So the XM-25 is to address that specific application? This is problematic to put it mildly. One per fireteam?

It seems it needs to be supplied with a bipod and possibly a standing aiming rest. It weighs 14lbs (6.35kg) unloaded and that means most soldiers will have a problem aiming and carrying it with sufficient ammunition. Base camp defence?