Seems like one per squad would be a better idea.
And since trying to conduct an enveloping attack with one fire team in a nine-man squad is a usually a fantasty anyway it won't matter that the fire teams aren't balanced.
Maybe a different story if the squad is reinforced but usually they're understrength.
"Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen." - Jeff Cooper
Note that in the article they are calling for 36 per battalion. It should be easy enough to figure out at what level they are being deployed based on that number.
For light TOEs 36 per battalion sounds like one per rifle squad plus three unassigned in the company arms room.
One weapon like that per fire team is just too much in small Army squads. Too many suppression weapons equals not enough riflemen to clear with.
Now, if the Army squad would just get rid of one of the SAWs. One light machine gunner, one grenadier and six or seven riflemen would be better. Balanced fire teams made better sense in the days of the BAR and M1, especially in big USMC squads.
Last edited by Rifleman; 10-15-2010 at 06:37 PM.
"Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen." - Jeff Cooper
It looks like one per squad but I still don't see the point. According to Wikipedia the system weighs 14 pounds but it doesn't say if that is loaded or empty. I am guessing empty. It gives the weight of the Target acquisition/fire control but does not say if that weight is included or not. Logic would suggest that it is included in the weight of the system but since this data apparently comes from the company who is trying to market it to the military, logic may not apply. There is no weight given for the ammo. There has been no data that I have seen on the effective burst radius of the round. I also have questions about what will happen when the highspeed optics fail. I would like to know what secondary weapon the gunner is supposed to carry. Most importantly, I would like to know why we need this. This appears to be a very narrow niche weapon. It appears that it can only really do one thing that the M203 can't. Is it really worth the cost or could that money be better spent elsewhere?
“Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.”
Terry Pratchett
Somebody's light bulb clicked on a little earlier, and designed the (rifle ) grenade sight T59, for the use of low-angle and high-angle fire. It could be fitted to pretty much every US WWII rifle and carbine.
Slings were already marked with tape in WWII, usually with the aid of a clinometer. When used in the high-angle role, an additional, rimmed .45 propulsion cartridge was inserted into the launcher tube.
The interesting thing about rifle grenades was the broad range of uses, already in WWII. Here are just some of the lesser known ones:
- After removing the detonator, a 30-yard cordtex (explosive 1/4 inch cord) was tied to the (Mills) rifle grenade and shot across the minefield, clearing a long and 8-inch narrow path. By using two such paths 10 feet apart, a cordtex net could be dragged across the minefield to open a 10-feet street (Source: British Commandos, Nr.1 of the often mentioned Special Series)
- "Grapnel" Grenades were first improvised to clear from a covered position trip-wire up to a 100 yards away. A simple AT rifle grenade got almost completely stripped down and a wooden plug with three inserted hooks got fixed with a screw as new head. A heavy 150 yard chalk line was attached and coiled up. ( Combat Lessons 4, WWII series)
- In a similar way com. wire was layed across streams, to up to 130 yards. (Combat lessons 6, WWII series)
- 60mm Mortar bombs were attached by wire and pliers to the grenade projectors M7 and M1 and fire to up to a range of 110 yards. Used to clear houses and hedgerows. (Combat lessons 6, WWII series)
- WP (smoke) rifle grenades with reduced WP charge were used by grenadiers to mark hidden targets, especially for the supporting tanks. (The reduction of the WP avoided the concealment by the very smoke) (Combat lessons x, WWII series)
- Some German rifle grenades could also be thrown by hand, lightening the combat load. This was considered to be very useful for mobile, light units operating far from the next base. ( Other countries had also special rifle adaptors for hand grenades) (Small unit action in Russia)
All in all it seems that the rifle grenade can still be useful in some "odd" or special jobs which need an odd or oversized warhead shape. Breeching, Mine-clearing, Grapnelling are just some of them.
The 40mm grenades at one side of the spectrum and the shoulder-fired weapons on the other seem to cover the big rest well enough. We will see how well the 25mm grenades widen that spectrum.
Der Kampf der Infanterie, the fight of the infantry, a swiss army movie of 1976 is interesting for a couple of things I noticed. Of course the Swiss German makes it rather hard to understand the talking of the soldiers, even for fluent German speakers.
Rifle grenades are featured very often both while defending and attacking, against infantry and AFV.
1) An strongpoint gets attack one of the defender calls out the range, and another adjusts his bipod with engraved range scales on it. Later you see how different defenders engage out of the trench the attacking infantry with massed indirect rifle grenade fire.
2) Armored infantry advances through forests and meadows in alpine terrain and,while still mounted, get attacked by various AT-weapons, like mines, ATM and rifle grenades.
3) Airmobile infantry inserted behind the frontline get counterattacked by infantry supported by MGs, mortars. Some riflemen get tasked to support the advance by using their rifle grenades in the same mini mortar-like role as seen in 1).
The rifle grenades were quite heavy and thus the recoil was wild, making it quite (un)popular in soldier stories. In direct fire the shooter had to be careful to follow the correct procedure.
Overall the greater ease of use of the 40 mm GL as well as the spread of ATM might have been key factors in the decline in popularity of rifle grenades. With training time ever limited it certainly is sensible to focus it on weapons expected to be widly in use.
The UBGL is essentially an (almost) always ready-to-fire version of WW2-era rifle grenades that used muzzle cups (such as German Schissbecher).
Modern rifle grenades are descendants of those WW2-era rifle grenades that used a rather stokes-like principle (sitting on the muzzle).
The UBGL and stnad-alone GL designs add (just like the Schiessbecher) a certain fixed cost of mass. No matter how many grenades you carry, you gotta carry those 1-4 pounds of weapon.
Thus we have today the choice between
* rifle grenades with zero fixed costs (mass) thanks to ladder sights on the grenade itself
OR
* grenade launchers with fixed costs (mass), which in present GL designs is somewhat outweighed by less slow use (I wouldn't say 'quick' as long as you need to flip up sights or carry a carbine in ready position but have to switch to a stand-alone GL). The variable costs (mass per shot) is also smaller.
Recoil as a problem rather favours rifle-attached solutions, for the additional weight reduces felt recoil. A given warhead mass and a given trajectory (~muzzle velocity) will yield about the same recoil all else equal (weight and thus recoil differences between fin and spin stabilisation may occur, though).
In the end, today's rifle grenades have two niches:
(1) Whole small unit grenade salvo without many heavy GLs
(2) Large calibre grenades (see the Simon doorbreacher rifle grenade)
GLs have other advantages
(1) Potential exploitation of Medium-low pressure principle.
(2) Can be carried ready for fire in UBGL
(3) Can be a multi-shot weapon (revolver or pumpgun principle usually)
(4) already standardised
(5) No need for bullet trap or special ballistite blank cartridge
(6) Can be used on weapons of different calibres without aiming issues
(7) The limitation to few soldiers inherently leads to higher practice standard by specialisation in practice
(8) Propellant power is independent of rifle/carbine calibre and barrel length.
The French, Israelis and some other countries make still much use of rifle grenades.
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