CAVGUY in The Air Force

[slapout9]

Wasn't sure where to put this but CAVGUY's article made the Wright Stuff Link posted below.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/aunews/

[Tom Odom]

Well, the Aussie Air Force at least!

Thanks slap!

Remember:

They fly upside down

[Cavguy]

Well, the Aussie Air Force at least!

Thanks slap!

Oops, misread the URL. I guess our AF likes me too! Where's Entropy!?!

[Entropy]

Oops, misread the URL. I guess our AF likes me too! Where's Entropy!?!

It's great that your article is getting wider exposure! It's important to point out, thought, that AU and the "Wright Stuff" summary frequently carry articles written by officers in the other services.

BTW, the Air Force has begun to train non-aviators as UAV pilots - ever thought about changing over the the dark side?

[Cavguy]

ever thought about changing over the the dark side?

Hmmm... cushy, nice bases, short deployments ... I think it occured to me every few hours while in Iraq.

Kind of like the quote in "We Were Soldiers", where the CSM states in the firefight, "Kinda makes you wish you signed up for submarines, huh sir?"

That said, I'd miss tank gunnery (or the hope of ever shooting it again) too much.

[Stan]

Back at cushy Ft Bliss circa 1970 something, this would have translated into what most of us 24 Uniforms called (you folks)

Wait for it...



In Flight Missile Repairmen


I love the smell of freshly fired HEAT rounds

Hmmm... cushy, nice bases, short deployments ... I think it occured to me every few hours while in Iraq.

Kind of like the quote in "We Were Soldiers", where the CSM states in the firefight, "Kinda makes you wish you signed up for submarines, huh sir?"

That said, I'd miss tank gunnery (or the hope of ever shooting it again) too much.

[Ken White]

in an M48, you could keep five 90mm rounds in the air at once; with an M60A3 and the same thing, four 105mm rounds in the air at once. No idea what one can do with a 120mm.

Bad news is that had and has no tactical value -- but it can be done, provided a case of beer for the winning bettors and helped burn up extra Ammo that couldn't be returned to the ASP due to some obscure rule probably involving extra paperwork for MOSC 23 holders...

Tank Gunnery is a lot of fun. It also provides metrics, handy for many things. If we could just figure out a way to 'metricize' (izzat a word???) tactical training which is at least equally important and as much if not more fun if it's done right, life would be good.. .

[Stan]

As I pine away for my M3 and the laboring V12-driven M88 and my old faithful 578, and have to muster a good word about arduous duty in an Abrams in the desert ... Sigh...

I got most of my beer free when working with Tom

[William F. Owen]

BTW, the Air Force has begun to train non-aviators as UAV pilots - ever thought about changing over the the dark side?

...and while this is to be applauded, what ever made them think that UAV's had to be controlled by pilots?

[William F. Owen]

in an M48, you could keep five 90mm rounds in the air at once; with an M60A3 and the same thing, four 105mm rounds in the air at once.

We use to see how many 51mm bombs we could get in the air. Of course, as I was only one who manned the 51, on live firing, (the only time the range staff were distracted) I always won!!! I tell people I could get six. The reality was 3-4.

[Entropy]

...and while this is to be applauded, what ever made them think that UAV's had to be controlled by pilots?

...there are a couple of reasons. One is training. Without an FAA license, UAV pilots would not be able to train in, or transit through, FAA-controlled airspace. In fact, the new, shortened training program will have to be inspected and certified by the FAA so they are satisfied the pilots will be skilled enough to operate in FAA airspace. For the FAA this is important because UAV's fly using instruments essentially all the of the time so they have less situational awareness and depend on controllers to avoid other aircraft.

The second major reason is that most AF UAV's operate extensively in controlled airspace overseas. Controlled airspace = pilot's license.

A lot of this is due to size and altitude - the Predator and Army's Warrior are about 40% larger than a Cessna. The newer Reaper is the size of an A-10. Typically, the coordination altitude between controlled and uncontrolled airspace is about 3000 feet. Most Army UAV's operate below that; all Air Force UAV's operate above that. I'm not all that familiar with the program, but I would be quite surprised if the Army did not use certified pilots for its new warrior UAV's for reasons listed.

[William F. Owen]

The second major reason is that most AF UAV's operate extensively in controlled airspace overseas. Controlled airspace = pilot's license.

Yes I had heard this, but as a pilot myself I can't see how anyone can equate the captaincy and skill required for manned flight in controlled airspace with the systems monitoring and control of a semi-autonomous UAV. Given good separation and radar surveillance, I can't see where a pilot's level of decision making is required. As things are changing, I guess it doesn't.

[Entropy]

Wilf,

There are probably situations where automation can be a substitute, but there are many situations where that probably isn't good enough. Radar control is not available everywhere (particularly Afghanistan), for example. The flying from point A to point B is not such a huge issue overseas, but that depends on location - the problems come when flying in a combat environment - for example, where multiple aircraft are stacked above a TIC and controlled by a JTAC on the ground.

It's not like an instrument rating is all that difficult to get. My understanding is that under the new program prospective UAV operators will spend six weeks getting basic flight training in a single-engine aircraft and then enter the UAV training program which is a little over six months, for a total training time of around nine months for full qualification with the weapons system.