Matters Blackwater (Merged thread)

[Steve Blair]

Do you have links or information (that can be posted without issues) to back up this statement? Providing something would be greatly appreciated, if for no other reason than to provide contrast to anything Blackwater happens to put out.

[Merv Benson]

I think Jedburgh and Steve Blair both make good points. I suspect the events surrounding the exchange of fire were much more nuanced than either side is revealing at this point. One point that should never be forgotten in these situations is that the enemy's war crime of fighting without an identifiable uniform endangers civilians in every confrontation. Civilian casualties would be greatly reduced if he obeyed the laws of war.

Whenever we are attributing causation this point should be raised to reinforce the point of the enemy's responsibility for civilian casualties. It could well be that there were other factors that put the Blackwater guys in a bad light, but this one factor puts the primary responsibility for endangering civilians where it belongs, on the enemy.

Confederate Yankee cites a report that indicates some of those doing the shooting at the convoy were wearing Iraqi Police uniforms. This adds another dimension to the event and may also explain the Iraqi political reaction.

[selil]

Civilian casualties would be greatly reduced if he obeyed the laws of war.

Where did I see that quote... something like "The laws of war are usually applied after the war has ended".... something like that.

[marct]

With emotions running high and conflicting reports coming out, what do we actually know about the incident that an be verified rather than just what spokespeople are saying? I think we can all agree that the main stream media are sometimes a touch biased, to say nothing about the people who manipulate them. Personally, I would really like to see some specific evidence just so that.

Patriot, you said

Do not believe the lies Blackwater is pumping out about the recent events in Al Mansour. None of what they are saying is true.

Without breaking any OPSEC considerations, can you suggest any sources that contradict the BW line? BTW, I'm not in any way trying to say that you are incorrect. I find the limited information I have seen to be open to all sorts of interpretations ranging from a staged AQI PR attack through to the BW crowd being drunk and "gettin' rowdy". And, honestly, I take the BW official line with a pinch of salt.

All, what I'm getting at is that this has the potential to be (maybe "is" would be more appropriate ) a major flashpoint, PR issue. If this was an AQI PR attack, we need solid evidence that people will believe. If it's another Abu Ghraib in the making, then that needs to be addressed as quickly as possible.

Marc

[Steve Blair]

To be honest, I tend to lump Blackwater statements into the same group as Microsoft statements that they are not a monopoly....

Blackwater has a vested interest (read money...both for current and future contracts) in presenting a particular spin on things. When it becomes especially troubling to me is if the government backs their spin without any sort of transparent investigation. I'm not saying this has happened or is happening...but rather identifying one of the many points of concern I have with this incident.

I do feel that PMCs are often allowed to slip through the cracks when it comes to accountability...a very disturbing trend.

[Jedburgh]

...I do feel that PMCs are often allowed to slip through the cracks when it comes to accountability...a very disturbing trend.

A good op-ed from 17 Sep 07 that speaks to that point:

Banned in Baghdad: Reactions to the Blackwater License Being Pulled

....Private military contractors have been involved in all sorts of questionable incidents, since the very start of the Iraq enterprise. U.S. military officers frequently expressed their frustrations with sharing the battlefield with such private forces operating under their own rules and agendas, and worry about the consequences for their own operations. For example, Brigadier General Karl Horst, deputy commander of the US 3rd Infantry Division (responsible for Baghdad area) tellingly put it two years back, These guys run loose in this country and do stupid stuff. There’s no authority over them, so you can’t come down on them hard when they escalate force. They shoot people, and someone else has to deal with the aftermath.”

No one has kept an exact count of the incidents, but some notable examples include:

• The Aegis “trophy video”, in which contractors took video of themselves shooting at civilians, set it to the Elvis song "Runaway Train," and put it on the Internet.

• The alleged joyride shootings of Iraqi civilians by a Triple Canopy supervisor. They became the subject of a lawsuit after two employees, who claim to have witnessed the shootings, lost their jobs.

• Armed contractors from the Zapata firm detained by U.S. forces, who allegedly saw the private soldiers indiscriminately firing not only at Iraqi civilians, but also at U.S. Marines. Again, they were not charged, as the legal issues could not be squared. Private military firms may be part of the military operation, but they and their employees are not part of the military, or its chain of command or its code of justice.

• Abu Ghraib, where reportedly 100 percent of the translators and up to 50 percent of the interrogators at the prison were private contractors from the Titan and CACI firms, respectively. The U.S. Army found that contractors were involved in 36% of the proven abuse incidents and identified six particular employees as being culpable in the abuses. While the enlisted U.S. Army soldiers involved in the Abu Ghraib abuse were court-martialed for their crimes, not a single private contractor named in the Army's investigation report has been charged, prosecuted or punished. The Army believes it lacks the jurisdiction to pursue these cases, even if it wants to.....

[tequila]

Remarkable that this incident never made the news at the time. The killing of the Iraqi vice president's bodyguard at Christmas by a BW contractor has made the rounds, but I never heard of this despite apparent press witnesses and a mil investigation:

NPR witnessed a similar scenario two years ago. A State Department convoy, protected by Blackwater, raced out of a compound. Guards immediately shot at a car killing an old man, his son and his daughter-in-law. Blackwater said the car was driving erratically. A U.S. military investigation concluded Blackwater had used excessive force. No one was prosecuted.


Sunday's incident seems to be the final straw — not just for Iraq's prime minister, but for the public. Outrage was bubbling on the streets.


Karim Muhammed, who owns a furniture store, said he's seen people killed by foreign security companies. He said Iraqi officials should have done something about this a long time ago.


"Why do they consider American blood first class, and ours a cheap commodity?" Muhammed said. "Are they better than us?"


And Samir Samir said he fears the private security companies far more than the U.S. military.


"The U.S. military is subject to its own laws and monitoring," Samir said. "Who monitors the security companies?"

[Sarajevo071]

Iraqi Report Says Blackwater Guards Fired First

A preliminary Iraqi report on a shooting involving an American diplomatic motorcade said Tuesday that Blackwater security guards were not ambushed, as the company reported, but instead fired at a car when it did not heed a policeman’s call to stop, killing a couple and their infant.

The report, by the Ministry of Interior, was presented to the Iraqi cabinet and, though unverified, seemed to contradict an account offered by Blackwater USA that the guards were responding to gunfire by militants. The report said Blackwater helicopters had also fired. The Ministry of Defense said 20 Iraqis had been killed, a far higher number than had been reported before.

In a sign of the seriousness of the standoff, the American Embassy here suspended diplomatic missions outside the Green Zone and throughout Iraq on Tuesday.

“There was not shooting against the convoy,” said Ali al-Dabbagh, the Iraqi government’s spokesman. “There was no fire from anyone in the square.”
...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/wo...rssnyt&emc=rss