Of Mice and Men: Gangs, Narco-Terrorism, and the USA

[MikeF]

There has been a recent debate about applying COIN to LE in the US. The parallels between COIN and community policing are quite striking. One of the arguments is that gangs don't have a political agenda. http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009...ks/#more-19759

And while I full heartedly believe that "Gangs/Narco-Terrorist- use violence to corner a market and make money," creating an ungovernable space where law enforcement and local/state/federal government can not exercise their full sovereignty is critical to their success in cornering a market and making money. Don't insurgents do the same thing?

John,

Thanks for the article. It's good commentary, but it also shows some misinterpretation over what we call COIN. For example, in the Salinas project, no one was suggesting to treat an American city like Baghdad and enforce strict population control measures- checkpoints, walling off neighborhoods, entry/ID cards, etc. Instead, the volunteers were mostly teaching basic military problem solving methods and good policing skills learned in small wars- ID your area of operations, determine where the enemy is at, figure out where you should be patrolling (mounted/dismounted), learning how to better communicate with your people, tightening your rules of engagement so you're not harming innocent civilians, etc.

To answer your question, gang use violence and political influence to make money. Insurgencies use violence, money, and drugs to achieve political goals.

Mike

[slapout9]

John,

Thanks for the article. It's good commentary, but it also shows some misinterpretation over what we call COIN. For example, in the Salinas project, no one was suggesting to treat an American city like Baghdad and enforce strict population control measures- checkpoints

Mike

They tried that in Montgomery not to long ago. It was successful from a decreasing crime standpoint but there were some howls from the citizenry. The whole concept (checkpoints) is where the word "Dragnet" comes from. It does work but you can not do it for a long period of time in the USA before voters will get pissed about living in a Police State.

[davidbfpo]

There is an EU-funded project that is looking at the issues involved in Detection Technologies, Counter-Terrorism, Ethics, and Human Rights called DETECTER, see their website:http://www.detecter.bham.ac.uk/ . This has some fascinating links. Some of the technology on offer, at R&D stage, was bizarre and needed some reality injected into discussions.

[jmm99]

My impression (about which, I'm asking your views, and those of anyone else who cares to comment) is that, besides sound crime scene workups and sound situational awareness, one of the primary LE tools (and I hope it continues) has been and is informants and infiltration - as to which specific, targeted surveillence technology certainly comes into play. I prefer that to setting up high-tech, "dragnet-type" McNamara Lines in every community.

Thoughts from you all ?

Mike

[slapout9]

My impression (about which, I'm asking your views, and those of anyone else who cares to comment) is that, besides sound crime scene workups and sound situational awareness, one of the primary LE tools (and I hope it continues) has been and is informants and infiltration - as to which specific, targeted surveillence technology certainly comes into play. I prefer that to setting up high-tech, "dragnet-type" McNamara Lines in every community.

Thoughts from you all ?

Mike

1-A good jobs/education program.

2-Better Neighborhood watch program.

3-Police cell phone communications system.

[Bill Moore]

Posted by slapout,

1-A good jobs/education program.

2-Better Neighborhood watch program.

3-Police cell phone communications system.

I agree with all of these, but do we really need good jobs and a good education system to prevent crime? The reason I ask is that both of these may not be politically feasible based on the available tax base, so if we can't get good jobs and a good education system (I'm thinking Hawaii), will that automatically lead to an increase in crime?

A better neighbhorhood watch program may be best described as mobilizing the populace to take action against crime (by alerting law enforcement) and developing trusting relationships between the residents and law enforcement. The residents know if they call, a police officer will respond relatively quickly. Over time the zeros (crooks) will get the word not to operate in this area.

Jmm99, in addition to infiltration (enemy centric) and good crime scene work ups (enemy centric) the police need to maintain a presence by active patrolling (foot, horse, bike, motorcycle, vehicle, and undercover) to deter and if deterence fails to quickly react. Amazing how quick crime rates drop when the police are actually out on the streets. That is getting tougher now due to the economic crisis. If they can use technical surveillance to augment their efforts without being overly intrusive I'm all for it. Not sure where that line between augment and too intrusive is though.

[jmm99]

Two of Slap's programs:

1-A good jobs/education program.

2-Better Neighborhood watch program.

could work together if, with respect to the common link (a solid, independent community organization, whether formal or informal), Bill's KISS principle would be followed.

The folks in the community know what is really needed re: jobs, education and security. Their solutions, I expect, would be better and cheaper than those imposed from above.

All of this fits into active patrolling and establishes a personal link between the cop and the community (as long as the cop doesn't act like an Imperial Storm Trooper and the community is not a bunch of knuckleheads).

The "friendly local cop" (who ain't going to be that if he locks himself up in a vehicle) can then explain technical surveillance measures (a video camara looking up and down the street) as being "my backup" and "your backup too".

The "political elites" (of whatever political spectrum) would hate this setup because they would lose a large measure of control over both the community organizations and the cops. And, it would kill a lot of their pet programs and controlled organizations. This paragraph a bit of a mini-rant.

Cheers

Mike