Of Mice and Men: Gangs, Narco-Terrorism, and the USA

[slapout9]

Hybrid Gangs...scary!

http://www.nagia.org/Gang%20Articles/Hybrid%20Gangs.htm

[MikeF]

Thinking about the nasty situations described by you and Ted, organizing the community against the gangs (assuming they have effective control) would seem more akin to being an insugent with external support and sanctuary areas (the police and the "safe areas").

Word. True dat.

First of all, thank you for your comments and emails. I've yet to commit emotionally or physically to this problem. I suppose that I'm conducting an assessment. Several LG and LE officials came to us for some help. I'm trying to determine the parameters of how I can and want to help. As I began researching, I was struck by the similarities I saw from my own combat experiences. It is quite plausible I was simply naive and oblivious prior to actually fighting to win the nations wars...Regardless, I was intrigued by this perceived gang-problem, and I'm trying to consider how to help if I choose to...Moreover, I thought this particular case-study would be a good discussion point for SWJ.

I'll start with Bill's comments:

Counterinsurgency students would tell you to focus on local solutions, and of course the police have attempted to do that with neighborhood watches, increasing ethnic diversity in their forces, etc.

I'm gonna have to disgree with you on this...I don't see a gang problem with a local solution. From my initial research, I believe the gang issues are simply symptoms of the larger social, economic, and political problems.

As Slap suggested,

LE can not solve the gang problem....they can surpress it, but they can not solve it.

I recall reading (Galula in the 1962 Rand Symposium?) that the proverbial change must be simultaneously bottom-up and top-down.

Anyways, I've gotta give some more thought to the other comments, but I thought we could start there. As with my adapted Kilcullen quote, I think that Salinas is more akin to Afghanistan than Iraq. Regardless, it is something that we will eventually have to deal with.

Again, I'd like to thank y'all for your thoughts and comments...

Keep em coming....We may all learn something

v/r

Mike

[slapout9]

MikeF, this is real close to how I was taught. This was posted awhile back by SGMGRUMPY. Well worth the read.

http://www.sandiego.gov/gangcommissi...bernardino.pdf

[ODB]

In that wrongly wired portion of my brain I have my own thoughts on ending gangs very quickly. Small group of well armed men with big balls. Put us in the worse part of town, walk up to the first gang member you spot and shoot him in the face. Then follow that up with an ambush at his funeral where you eliminate the rest of them in one quick swoop. Suddenly they would get the hint we aren't playing and would quickly change their ways. Play the game they know.

Seriously though it needs to be a multi dimensional approach, IMO it starts with the adults, the parents and spreads from there.

[reed11b]

This is an unpopular opinion, but as I sit in the youth crisis shelter office and watch the kids idolize the "rappers" on TV that sell nothing but materialism and glorification of petty violence for the sake of petty violence, I can't help but think that finding a way to de-power these so-called artists would help greatly.
Reed

[davidbfpo]

Mike F,

Coming in late to ths thread and UK policing has some experience with policing gangs, mainly when inter-gang shootings attract attention, sorry invariably black on black deaths (see Operation Trident by Met in London) and some of our Northern Ireland experiences were gang related (or para military activity).

Leaving aside the problems of political will, inter-agency working and resourcing here a few points:

1) Establish what is actually happening? LE stats and media stories provide only signposts.
2) What level of community engagement exists - with LE & LG. Is there any information from the community?
3) Establish robust methods for the community to provide information in confidence; Crime Stoppers has much to offer.
4) How effective is Local LE? That will affect community views and expectations. I base this on the contrast between New Orleans and Dallas policing - from an article I posted here sometime ago.
5) Specialist task forces have a role, possibly only short term, so ensure all LE have a role.
6) What are the key vulnerabilities of the gangs? I suspect LE will not know and will be reluctant to acknowledge that. In the UK LE there is little understanding of markets and business.

[John T. Fishel]

Mike, on the macro level, see Max Manwaring's work on gangs from SSI (online - Google SSI). Also his just published book from OU Press.

Note: MR 13 and 18th Street - two of the biggest Salvadoran gangs - started in Los Angeles and were deported home. In CENTAM, gangs are a mjor problem in Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras - not so much in Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Panama. Of those countries, the only one with a largely Mayan speaking population (27 Mayan languages) is Guatemala. The rest are mestizo, mixed populations with the principal indigenous language being Nahuatl, the Aztec tongue. Mexico is obviously the other major gang problem country. One of the things Max does is tie gangs to larger political and criminal trends.

JMM, good on ya regarding Alinsky. Reveille for Radical should be required reading for all folk engaged in advisory efforts, SFA, COIN, etc. One doesn't have to accept Alinsky's ideology to make use of his techniques and his analysis of the woes of a particular population.

Cheers

JohnT