Mumbai Attacks and their impact

[bourbon]

Reports coming in are mentioning the role of Dawood Ibrahim in the attacks. Ibrahim is the head of D-Company, which is the leading group in the Mumbai underworld. He has strong connections to ISI, and was the facilitator of the 1993 attacks in Mumbai. Reportedly, D-Company controls Sasool dock where the attackers came ashore. One of the captured attackers has reportedly said in interrogation that Ibrahim owned the ship the attackers took from Karachi, and D-Company provided logistical support in the city.

This was not global jihad. Its roots are far closer to home: These attacks were born of local and regional hostilities, and it seems likely a part was played by a Mumbai crime boss, by Misha Glenny. guardian.co.uk, December 1 2008.

Captured Mumbai attacker implicates Pakistani military, intel, By Bill Roggio. The Long War Journal, November 30, 2008.

Captured Mumbai terrorist reveals plot to slaughter 5000. Herald Sun, December 01, 2008.

[carl]

I think American police department capabilities may be underestimated. In the area I worked in, in critical situations, we could call on one large and one small city pd, numerous sheriff's offices, the BLM cops, several tribal police departments, the wildlife guys, the local FBI office, the state police and if things really got bad, the state pen special guys. There were always a number of special trained officers on normal patrol and (I have been gone a few years) I would assume that now there are a number of officers who have been to Iraq and Afghanistan. Everybody had pistols and shotguns and all the state police had AR-15's. Given more time, swat teams from all over the state would be there too.

There would be tremendous confusion and hell to pay in the first few hours but there is more capability there than people may think. Those Mexican drug assassins in Arizona certainly didn't have things all their own way.

[Cavguy]

Made me chuckle from Abu Muqawama -

Look, if just 10 dudes rolled into my hometown and started shooting people, they would have been killed within the hour. I'm not kidding. (People still try to take their guns aboard planes in my hometown.) India's police has been caught out by these 10 gunmen as badly as U.S. intelligence services (and airport security) were caught out by the 9/11 hi-jackers. In both cases, there was no reason so many people were killed by so few. Unlike 9/11, though, heads are rolling in India. In case anyone is wondering,

I imagine the same in Slapout, AL.

[Uboat509]

I am still much more concerned about a Beslan type situation than something like Mumbai. I just don't think that a similar attack would have near the success in the US. Law Enforcement capabilities aside, there are an awful lot of people like me out there bitterly clinging to our guns. A Beslan type attack, say on a large inner city school, or schools on the other hand could be devastating, particularly if the attackers managed to start a rumor that there were other groups still out there ready to attack other schools. It is one thing to say that I will not let the terrorists scare me. I will live my life and go to work and do what I need to do regardless of the threat. It is quite another thing to send your babies into that. How many businesses would have troubles with production because terrified parents stayed home with their kids? What kind of effect would that many working parents staying home have on the economy?

SFC W

[carl]

I just don't think that a similar attack would have near the success in the US. Law Enforcement capabilities aside, there are an awful lot of people like me out there bitterly clinging to our guns.
SFC W

Agreed. I found people were extremely eager to help if an officer was in a fight or somebody went missing. If we had passed the word we needed armed volunteers...the numbers would have been large.

[bismark17]

I am concerned about the Beslan style issue myself or hit and run attacks on malls. That would be really great for the economy at this point. Or look at what those 2 weirdos, the father and son sniper team, did on the East Coast. The IRA already started that a long time ago with urban sniping from vehicles. Coming from both an Infantry and Police background it's amazing to participate or watch force on force situations with multiple search teams in active shooter scenarios. The command and control is brutal. Without getting too specific the usual history of these events is that the active shooter doesn't want to engage with us but will usually shoot themselves once they realize we are on scene.

Terrorists are not going to do that but will want to engage. These latest guys were very well trained and aggressive. The latest account I read claimed that they took turns to change their mags so that one of them could provide support. High speed. Think of how this went and what they could have done better because they are....

I am still much more concerned about a Beslan type situation than something like Mumbai. I just don't think that a similar attack would have near the success in the US. Law Enforcement capabilities aside, there are an awful lot of people like me out there bitterly clinging to our guns. A Beslan type attack, say on a large inner city school, or schools on the other hand could be devastating, particularly if the attackers managed to start a rumor that there were other groups still out there ready to attack other schools. It is one thing to say that I will not let the terrorists scare me. I will live my life and go to work and do what I need to do regardless of the threat. It is quite another thing to send your babies into that. How many businesses would have troubles with production because terrified parents stayed home with their kids? What kind of effect would that many working parents staying home have on the economy?

SFC W

[Entropy]

The problem with a Beslan operation and why I think it's unlikely is that it won't net the instigator good press with those they are attempting to influence. Symbolism is often more important for attackers than body counts (especially so for sophisticated attackers) and in Mumbai the decision on what to target was obviously based on symbolic value rather than maximizing a death toll. The symbolism associated with attacking a school and murdering children will not play well even among many Jihadists, so I think a sophisticated crew that can plan and carry out this kind of operation are unlikely to target schools - especially after Beslan, which didn't work out too well for the Chechens.

[slapout9]

I worry more about the Mexican/US border. An attack of that nature is a real possibility at one of the border towns.

[slapout9]

I imagine the same in Slapout, AL.

You got that right....like 36-0 My friend "Fat Tony" would make them an offer they couldn't refuse and they would never forget

The 1st US Redneck Special Forces Unit. Fat Tony is in the Red Shirt. Oh Yea there is some bad words in here but they go by so fast you can't hardly her them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2597...eature=related

[Ken White]

from Texas...

LINK.

[Rex Brynen]

Pakistan moves troops toward Indian border

SEBASTIAN ABBOT
Associated Press
Globe and Mail, December 26, 2008 at 11:20 AM EST

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan began moving thousands of troops to the Indian border Friday, intelligence officials said, sharply raising tensions triggered by the Mumbai terror attacks.

India has blamed Pakistani-based militants for last month's siege on its financial capital, which killed 164 people and has provoked an increasingly bitter war of words between nuclear-armed neighbours that have fought three wars in 60 years.

The troops headed to the Indian border were being diverted away from tribal areas near Afghanistan, officials said, and the move was expected to frustrate the United States, which has been pushing Pakistan to step up its fight against al-Qaeda and Taliban militants near the Afghan border.

Two intelligence officials said the army's 14th Division was being redeployed to the towns of Kasur and Sialkot, close to the Indian border. They said some 20,000 troops were on the move. Earlier Friday, a security official said all troop leave had been cancelled.

[Bill Moore]

There were other scattered tidbits on various websites indicating that this situation is rapidly going from bad to worse. Pakistan allegedly arrested an Indian in the past couple of days who was tied to a terrorist attack in Pakistan. S. Asia is not the land of cooler heads. Unfortunately, it appears that the terrorists are about to achieve their strategic objective of diverting troops from the FATA to the Indian border, and they may get a bonus on top of that.

[Surferbeetle]

From todays Pakistan Daily Times

Pakistan troops move to Indian borders

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan troops were deployed on Thursday to protect vital points along the Line of Control in Kashmir and the international border with India, defence sources told Daily Times. Reports in Indian media said Pakistan moved its 10th Brigade to Lahore and ordered the 3rd Armoured Brigade to march towards Jhelum, following a heavy concentration of Indian troops on the borders. Pakistan’s 10th and 11th divisions have been put on high alert, Indian media said, and troops had been stationed in Rajouri and Poonch sectors of Kashmir. Sources in the Defence Department declined to give details of any fresh movement but did not deny reports that Pakistan was moving certain brigades towards Lahore. Indian TV channels also reported that Pakistan Air Force continued its state of high alert and started aerial surveillance of the Chashma power plant and other sensitive sites on Thursday amid fears of a ‘surgical strike’ by India. sajjad malik

From todays Spiegel

Pakistan übt sich in Drohgebärden und lässt Truppen an der Grenze zu Indien aufmarschieren. Die Regierung in Delhi wiederum bittet China und Saudi-Arabien um Vermittlung. Nun versuchen die USA, im Konflikt zwischen den Atommächten zu vermitteln.

My translation...

Pakistan is practicing threatening gestures and letting troops march to the border with India. The Government in Dehli is again asking China and Saudi-Arabia about mediation. The USA is now trying to mediate the conflict between the atomic powers as well.

And a KUNA report as a third source...

ISLAMABAD, Dec 26 (KUNA) -- Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi Friday said that China and Iran are perturbed over the current Pak-India tension and would play their role to defuse it.
The ongoing tension between the two neighboring countries would benefit only the terrorists who are hell-bent upon sabotaging the normalization process, he said while talking to news reporters in eastern Multan city.
He said he received telephone calls from his Chinese and Iranian counterparts today (Friday) and they expressed their deep concern over the Indo-Pak tension.
"Both the countries are affected if Pakistan is affected as they are our best friends", he said, adding that the Chinese FM would visit India soon to play his mediatory role to ease the tension.
Pakistan is a peace-loving country and does not want tension with India, said the Foreign Minister. He said political stability in the region is in the interest of all. (pick up previous).