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Thread: Mumbai Attacks and their impact

  1. #161
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    Blueblood I agree, but I think advantage diminishes rapidly when you move to mid and small sized towns. NYC and LA police among others have incredible capabilities, but they don't represent most cities and towns.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    Blueblood I agree, but I think advantage diminishes rapidly when you move to mid and small sized towns. NYC and LA police among others have incredible capabilities, but they don't represent most cities and towns.
    Not likely Bill. I compared "well funded" police forces of both countries. Smaller police forces of US are equally well equipped while the weapon of choice of Indian police in smaller cities is a wooden cane and at the most a Lee-Enfield of the 1960's vintage. More than 80 percent of police members have never operated an automatic rifle. There were CCTV videos of CST, the Mumbai railway station where the initial onslaught took place. Many Railway police constables ran away as they had no weapons. Those who had tried to return the fire but they too jammed since they haven't been used and cleaned since god knows when.

    The West jumped the gun when they criticized the performance of NSG during the whole fiasco. People were comparing them with the past performances of American SWATs, GIGN, GSG9 and whatnot, but how many of these forces have faced situation identical to this. These were not some teenagers attacking a high school. They were trained by ISI and SSG(N) and had more tech than your average jihadi.

    NSG did more live room clearing drills with hostages inside in less than 48 hours than many forces did in their lifetimes. The attack was deemed as India's 9/11 and so it was. Complete breakdown of the security apparatus.

    American SWATs though very well trained are not designed to react to the scale NSG is.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati...er#cite_note-5

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Missions

    I was dumbfounded when I first saw this show. SWAT members of smaller cities were demolishing the SEALs, Green berets, Deltas and Marines Recons.

  3. #163
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    Default Kasab hanged amid secrecy

    Questions are being raised surrounding the sudden and secret hanging of Kasab in India.

    From International Business Times India:
    Ajmal Kasab a Victim of Dengue or Was He Hanged till Death? Soon after the news of Mohammed Ajmal Kasab's hanging was announced, several people started raising questions about the government's secrecy over his execution. While several people, including the victims' families supported the decision, many have raised doubts on the social networking sites asking whether the terrorist was actually hanged or he died of dengue.
    The rumor of Kasab dying of dengue has become a hot topic of discussion on Twitter.

    Excerpt From OneIndia News:

    Mumbai, Nov 21: The swiftness and secrecy in which the execution of Pakistani terrorist Ajmal Kasab took place have come as a surprise to many. People are wondering why so much secrecy was maintained before hanging Kasab? Kasab was hanged till death at Yerwada jail in Pune around 7.30 am on Wednesday, Nov 21. Kasab, who was held in Mumbai's Arthur Road jail, was then moved to Pune's Yerwada prison."We kept secrecy. It was important to maintain secrecy in this matter," Shinde said, adding that Pakistan had been informed of the execution.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-22-2012 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Citations in quotes, PM to author

  4. #164
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    Default A timely departure

    Personally I have no problem with India's decision to execute this man, who gunned down many innocents at Mumbai's railway station, nearly four years ago.

    The BBC's local reporter, in a good report, noted that:
    many believe, the government, beset by allegations of scandal and inaction, timed the execution perfectly.

    It came a day before the beginning of the winter session of the parliament, where it's primed to face a noisy and tough opposition. It also came five days before the fourth anniversary of the attacks when the main opposition BJP would have almost certainly reminded the government of its "failure" to execute Qasab.
    Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20422270

    Some of the victim's reaction are in another BBC article; this says it all:
    ...the sense that someone has been finally held accountable for the deaths makes the sense of injustice slightly more bearable than before.
    Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20423470

    A comment on the Indian Twitter surge:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20426516 and the Indian press reaction:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20440455
    davidbfpo

  5. #165
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    Sir,

    The Dengue issue is all over the Indi-Pak mainstream(very mainstream) and social media. I think the Indian Government should not have done it in secrecy given South Asia's propensity towards conpiracy theories.

    From the Indian Defense Forum:http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/p...ged-death.html

    Kasab died due to high BP and cholesterol, thanks to all the rich food served to him. After he was found dead, they hanged his dead body just to show that he did not die due to natural causes!
    Nonetheless- one less terrorist on this planet, and it was long due!!!

  6. #166
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    Default Fourth anniversary of Mumbai attacks

    This anniversary has just passed (26th November 2008) and led to some local commentary. There is a short article in The Times Of India by Vappala Balachandran:http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...olice-response

    It opens with:
    Security breaches can be prevented only through a combination of measures in which mental anticipation of the possible situation is cardinal.

    The US security machinery's pre-9 /11 lapses were described as 'failures in imagination, policy, capabilities and management' by the Kean-Hamilton commission. Despite intelligence alerts since 2006 that a seaborne commando attack on multiple targets in Mumbai was likely, our resistance capacity was not strengthened.
    The author has written a longer article for an Indian magazine, Defence & Security Alert, which is not linked on the Web; it is too big to use an attachment, so PM me if required with an email address.
    davidbfpo

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    Default 26/11 villain Ajmal Kasab hanged.

    26/11 villain Ajmal Kasab hanged, Pak stops journalists from entering his village

    Pakistani national Ajmal Kasab, the sole surviving terrorist of the Mumbai terror attack of November 26, 2008, was hanged in a Pune jail at 7.30 am on Wednesday, after his mercy plea was rejected by President Pranab Mukherjee earlier this month.

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-...e1-962152.aspx


    What's disappointing is the western media's use of tag of gunman instead of terrorist and even more disappointing is the Pak media's tag of accused despite the CCTV footage and the confession.

    Anyhow, it's better late than never.

  8. #168
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    Default For Mumbai, Justice If Not Peace

    For Mumbai, Justice If Not Peace

    Entry Excerpt:



    --------
    Read the full post and make any comments at the SWJ Blog.
    This forum is a feed only and is closed to user comments.

  9. #169
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    Default Mumbai & Twitter: use by the attackers?

    This academic study was published in March 2011, with the title 'Information control and terrorism: Tracking the Mumbai terrorist attack through twitter' and was discovered via Twitter today!

    The study is behind a paywall:http://link.springer.com/article/10....796-010-9275-8

    So here is the blog comment, first the author's bio:
    Patrick Meier (PhD) is an internationally recognized thought leader on the application of new technologies for crisis early warning, humanitarian response and resilience.
    It starts with, my emphasis:
    Those who are still sceptical about the value of Twitter for real-time situational awareness during a crisis ought to ask why terrorists likely think otherwise. In 2008, terrorists carried out multiple attacks on Mumbai in what many refer to as the worst terrorist incident in Indian history. This study, summarized below, explains how the terrorists in question could have used social media for coordination and decision-making purposes.
    The study concluded, in part:
    ...we conclude that the Mumbai Twitter page indirectly contributed to enhancing the situational awareness level of Mumbai terrorists, although we cannot exclude the possibility of its direct contribution as well....Because terrorists’ political goals function as interpretative filters to process situational information, understanding of adversaries’ political goals may reduce costs for security operation teams to monitor and decide which tweets need to be controlled.
    Link:http://irevolution.net/2013/02/14/te...-used-twitter/

    Ah, controlling tweets - now there is a dilemma. I do not understand the technology, but know a tweet can be withdrawn and the system can hinder activity. One wonders if anyone has thought through an operating protocol. Plus I assume Twitter is not the only provider.
    davidbfpo

  10. #170
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    Social Media is becoming a significant factor in real time situational awareness:

    Ushahidi is a good example of the potential and Google is experimenting with the same concept.

    The ability to monitor near real time social media feeds for content is also spreading, again looking at Kenya: Umati
    RR

    "War is an option of difficulties"

  11. #171
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    Default We are clearly somewhat behind the bad guys.

    From an observer of the social media scene, with my emphasis:
    The use of Social Media for Situational Awareness is a real issue and here is some evidence to back up what was suspected. I think the authorities are somewhat slow in thinking about the implications of this. I am just starting to see some interest from the commercial risk management sector but there needs to be much more momentum here. We are clearly somewhat behind the bad guys.
    davidbfpo

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    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


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  13. #173
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    Default Falling thro' the cracks or deliberate omissions?

    The BIJ return with a lengthy article asking 'Four Disturbing Questions About the Mumbai Terror Attack':http://www.propublica.org/article/fo...-terror-attack

    Q. Why doesn't Pakistan capture Sajid Mir?
    Q. What was the full extent of the role of Pakistani intelligence in Mumbai?
    Q. What risk does Lashkar-e-Taiba pose in the future?
    Q. Why didn't U.S. authorities stop Headley sooner?
    It ends with a lawyer's quote:
    Headley proved that for all our changes in security, we are not much safer.....It was too easy. When the real big bad terrorist showed up, no one saw him.
    davidbfpo

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    Psyops in Pakistan seem to be determined to make hay with a stupid Indian newspaper headline. This may not be smart..

    http://www.brownpundits.com/2013/07/...umbai-attacks/

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    http://www.brownpundits.com/2013/07/...umbai-attacks/

    Above link updated with explanation of sorts

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    Quote Originally Posted by omarali50 View Post
    Psyops in Pakistan seem to be determined to make hay with a stupid Indian newspaper headline. This may not be smart..

    http://www.brownpundits.com/2013/07/...umbai-attacks/
    That is rich.

    Maybe the officer could explain how Hafeez Saeed and the LeT are part of the Indian intelligence!

    The man is said to be on vendetta to get to some officers of his organisation who have, as per him, not given him a fair deal.

    And then there is a whole lot of politics.

    This is an election year.

    The Govt has performed dismally to include total looting by Ministers including possibly the 'honest' Prime Minister (or helping his mentor) and so it has to organise issues that diverts the attention.

    The simple question is that how does it help India to organise terrorism against itself?

    Indeed, if it does, what are the motivations to do it?

    Destabilise India and for who? Foreign interests?

    Too outlandish to feel India is controlled by foreign interests.

    And if it is true, then let us once again be a colony so that we know where we stand!

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    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-20-2015 at 05:49 PM. Reason: Redundant link so deleted

  18. #178
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    Default An incomplete jigsaw

    A NYT piece on the information and intelligence before the Mumbai attacks. A choice passage:
    What happened next may rank among the most devastating near-misses in the history of spycraft. The intelligence agencies of the three nations did not pull together all the strands gathered by their high-tech surveillance and other tools, which might have allowed them to disrupt a terror strike so scarring that it is often called India’s 9/11.
    Link:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/wo...=67232673&_r=1

    Many insights are within the article and rightly an Indian politician ends with:
    The key is the analysis, we didn’t have it.
    davidbfpo

  19. #179
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    But isnt this a bit of "grabbing the wrong end of the stick"? Modern intelligence gathering generates more data than can possibly be analyzed in real time by human analysts. The biggest problem is not that the human analyst did not pick up X out of all random bits; it is that the human analysts did not have a good idea of where they should have been looking most carefully.
    That does not imply a fixed set of priorities, but it does mean having a constantly updated model that captures where the biggest problems are likely to come from.
    In this case, it does not seem that neither Western analysts or Indian ones were fully awake to the possibilities.
    Of course there will be surprises. But at that point, should this have been such a total surprise?
    I dont know. I am not an intelligence analyst. But those who are: what do you think? in retrospect, should it have been such a shock?

  20. #180
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    btw, another judgement in Lakhvi's favor.

    http://www.dawn.com/news/1153831/ihc...cks-mastermind

    Being a Pakistani, I tend to suspect that "the fix is in" (i.e. the US and the GOP have agreed that low level Kashmir Jihad is the best option to siphon off various explosive young men who might otherwise explode in more sensitive locations), but what do more rationally trained people think? Happenstance? Coincidence? or enemy action?

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