President Elect Obama and Britain

[Icebreaker]

Attached is a link to a TimesonLine article about President-Elect Obama, and how his grandfather was arrested by the British in Kenya during the Mau Mau:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle5282113.ece

The author speculates that this might effect President-Elect Obama's attitude towards the special relationship between the U.S. and Great Britain. As an American of English decent, I have always been proud of the relationship between the U.S. and Great Britain (leaving out the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812 - when you set fire to the White House).

I think that the author is hyping the issue somewhat, but I wanted the prespectives of other members, esspecailly those from Britain. Britain along with Australia has been the best allies America has had and I think I that it should stay that way.

Thanks

[datroy]

Honestly, I think this is a little dumb. My great-grandfather was beaten and had his teeth knocked out as a boy by the Black and Tans. It doesn't affect my opinions on Britain one bit.

The New Statesman has an article alleging that Obama called Cameron a lightweight due to his Euroskepticism. That didn't quite line up with the message of Obama's global citizenship lovefest in Berlin. My guess is, if anything, this would be more likely to affect the transatlantic relationship. I'm not crazy about Cameron, but I'm more on his side on the issue.

http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-polit...rope-president

[selil]

I'm deep Scots-Irish, and I ain't catholic, and I doubt President elect Obamas great grandfathers incident will effect the special relationship between the United States and Britain.

You know it is the same relationship a younger virile son has with a doddering Alzheimer's wracked grandparent.

[William F. Owen]

My wife's grand parents were both committed and successful members of a terrorist organisation that tried to kill my grandfather, when he was the British Ambassador to the Lebanon.

My advice to the President Elect is "get over it." - and if he can't then his inability to forget will give in a very valuable insight into everyday living in the Middle-east.

To a friend of mine from Jerusalem, "Here there are three Histories. Ours, yours, and theirs!"

[davidbfpo]

I am sure the background to President Obama, including the allegation his grandfather was tortured in Kenya will feature in a briefing paper for the UK government. Whether the President will be influenced by this history is a moot point.

Did this family history affect his decision-making on Gitmo Bay? I am not aware of his general attitude to human rights.

The much vaunted "special relationship" is highly prized here, notably by the Whitehall-Westminster establishment (akin to "within the Beltway") and of course the intelligence / military links.

IMHO UK public opinion is less convinced, even hostile to this relationship. Relatively minor issues, for example entry requirements to the USA led to much adverse comment in the conservative-leaning Daily Telegraph. In 2001 two million marched in London against any war with Iraq and this week an opinion poll stated 73% opposed the UK role in Afghanistan.

I shall watch to see President Obama affirms the "special relationship" and if his presidency affects how UK public opinion views the USA.

Incidentally one Whitehall observer, albeit in 2001, described the UK as "America's Ghurkha" and that within "The Beltway" few saw the relationship as that special.

[Granite_State]

I am sure the background to President Obama, including the allegation his grandfather was tortured in Kenya will feature in a briefing paper for the UK government. Whether the President will be influenced by this history is a moot point.

Did this family history affect his decision-making on Gitmo Bay? I am not aware of his general attitude to human rights.

The much vaunted "special relationship" is highly prized here, notably by the Whitehall-Westminster establishment (akin to "within the Beltway") and of course the intelligence / military links.

IMHO UK public opinion is less convinced, even hostile to this relationship. Relatively minor issues, for example entry requirements to the USA led to much adverse comment in the conservative-leaning Daily Telegraph. In 2001 two million marched in London against any war with Iraq and this week an opinion poll stated 73% opposed the UK role in Afghanistan.

I shall watch to see President Obama affirms the "special relationship" and if his presidency affects how UK public opinion views the USA.

Incidentally one Whitehall observer, albeit in 2001, described the UK as "America's Ghurkha" and that within "The Beltway" few saw the relationship as that special.

America's Gurkha, that's not bad. I understand where British public opinion is coming from, we seem to do better out of the deal than you do.

[davidbfpo]

From the BBC website a commenary on the meeting between UK and US foriegn ministers, a lot of "spin" I fear: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7866859.stm

Note the contrast in later UK comments on a judicial decision under threat from US withdrawing from part of the 'special relationship': http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7870049.stm and the right wing Daily Telegraph's comment: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/majo...-evidence.html

[jmm99]

so much for a heads up on Lord Justice Thomas' 4 Feb decision in the UK Binyam Mohamed case. I have linked the 4 decisions in that case here (post #180).

[davidbfpo]

The disclosure of information to the UK High Court has taken a different direction, if one accepts this report: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/majo...rture-row.html

Sensitive intelligence exchanges may in fact be evidence of torture which is damaging to political interests. Then the suggestion of a prosecution in the UK of those UK intelligence officers who had a part. Murky.

Followed by a leader article on the special relationship, which is more broad ranging and in places pithy: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...o-America.html

davidbfpo

[davidbfpo]

In a headline 'CIA warns Barack Obama that British terrorists are the biggest threat to the US', IMHO a worrying sign that our special relationship is either the victim of much "spin" or much is changing on the ground. This is the article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...to-the-US.html

Much of the story relies on ex-CIA officer Bruce Riedel and the timng after the spat over disclosing US documents in a UK court case makes me suspect "spin" is at work. Who is now an adviser to President Obama, in particular reviewing policy in Afghanistan / Pakistan.

Update: This website has a pithy commentary on the stories and points out such activity, even by an ally, the CIA, would be illegal: http://www.spyblog.org.uk/

davidbfpo

[davidbfpo]

A rare mention of the terrorist suspects held in the UK, who are wanted by the USA; one has been in custody fighting extradition for ten years: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...n-Britain.html

Note these cases pre-date the very favourable, one-way extradition agreement UK to the USA.

davidbfpo

[davidbfpo]

Within a five minute interview on The (UK) Daily Telegraph on wider issues, Morris Reid, an adviser to Bill Clinton and now - maybe - to President Obama, finally makes a comment 'The special relationship is over and dead'. Never heard of him, but Google suggests he has access inside D.C.

Try: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-adviser.html

davidbfpo

[Ken White]

has endured over a good many years in spite of bad things each Nation has done to the other and in spite of shifting political winds from either DC or Whitehall. Not the first time I've heard the 'prediction' that it was dead and I'll bet it will not be the last. It's deeper than politicians.

Come to think of it, almost anything is deeper than politicians...

[Rob Thornton]

Come to think of it, almost anything is deeper than politicians

I'm beginning to think power point is deeper than politicians

[jmm99]

was a blank to me, I thought it best to look him up. His bio is here; he pundits on a number of different issues (e.g., here); and is basically a media-business consultant with BGR Group - and a former media flak and current lobbyist.

Connection (if any) with Obama administration, I did not see in a very cursory search.

[davidbfpo]

Not startling news, but The (UK) Independent returns with a long article on the briefings that British accents have been heard in Afghanistan: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...n-1631347.html

Not that it is just a UK issue, after a Somali from the USA went back to fight:

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/...n-somalia.html

Could be a seperate thread, but fits in here too.

davidbfpo

[jmm99]

Both the UK and US have had their share of soldiers of fortune, who went forth to far-off lands with their swords - sometimes for adventure, sometimes for money and sometimes for a cause. So, in that sense, what we are seeing in these two articles are not exactly novel events.

I was a bit surprised by one factoid in the UK Independent article (if the number 4000 is near correct):

MI5 has estimated that up to 4,000 British Muslims had travelled to Pakistan and, before the fall of the Taliban, to Afghanistan for military training. The main concern until now has been about the parts some of them had played in terrorist plots in the UK. Now there are signs that they are mounting missions against British and Western targets abroad.

So, they (AQ and affiliates) have managed to recruit something akin to brigade strength. I suppose that reflects the relatively large Muslim population in the UK.

The Somali issue in the US has been noted in the past. The US News article illustrates some of the problems in dealing domestically with the Muslim communities. It is interesting to note that:

Shirwa Ahmed, a naturalized U.S. citizen, was radicalized and recruited into a Somali militant group near his hometown of Minneapolis, according to the FBI.

I am not contending that the Minneapolis area is some "hot bed" of radical Islamic terrorist activity, but it does have its share of activists (e.g., the Imams on the airliner and their consequent civil law suit). The Minneapolis Muslims also have a political voice, US Rep. Keith Ellison. Some, however, still want to go beyond pursuing recognized civil rights (the Imams) and political action (Mr. Ellison) to unlawful armed conflict (the Somalis).

The very difficult problem for US and UK law enforcement is to identify those "some" before the terrorist event. Whether Mr. Obama's multi-ethnic experience will help in that regard is so far unknown. In his campaign statements, he kept his opinion of Muslims pretty close to the vest, other than the expected political-type statements. Perhaps, he was more candid in his books, which I confess not to have read.

[davidbfpo]

The BBC News item on the "love in" today as UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown visits President Obama: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7918345.stm

Much spin on our enduring special relationship.

davidbfpo