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Thread: Supply routes to Afghanistan

  1. #21
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Supplies blocked?

    An interesting Australian article on the problems in Pakistani routes: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...0-2703,00.html

    Note attack on the Quetta route.

    davidbfpo

  2. #22
    Council Member Harry Phillips's Avatar
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    Default Pakistan closes NATO supply route to fight militants

    Pakistan closes NATO supply route to fight militants

    PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AFP) — Pakistan on Tuesday cut off supplies to NATO and US forces in Afghanistan via the Khyber Pass as security forces launched a major operation against militants there, officials said.

    The offensive comes after a series of spectacular raids by suspected Taliban militants on foreign military supply depots in northwest Pakistan earlier this month in which hundreds of NATO and US-led coalition vehicles were destroyed.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...vtZXVnBB-UQAGw
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 12-30-2008 at 08:45 PM. Reason: Moved here from another thread and PM sent.
    Harry Vann Phillips
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  3. #23
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Khyber Pass closed temporarily

    Story reports pass closed for local security action against bandits: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081230/...as/as_pakistan and the BBC commentary: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7804389.stm

    davidbfpo
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 12-30-2008 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Add 2nd link

  4. #24
    Council Member Harry Phillips's Avatar
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    Default U.S. to Widen Supply Routes in Afghan War

    From yesterday's New York Times.


    U.S. to Widen Supply Routes in Afghan War
    WASHINGTON — The United States and NATO are planning to open and expand supply lines through Central Asia to deliver fuel, food and other goods to a military mission in Afghanistan that is expected to grow by tens of thousands of troops in the months ahead, according to American and alliance diplomats and military officials.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/31/wo..._r=1&ref=world
    Harry Vann Phillips
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  5. #25
    Council Member TheCurmudgeon's Avatar
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    Default Borsch anyone?

    Not sure how much this will help since any goods coming from the US would have to transit through either Iran, Russia, or China to make use of this route. Even if we could make the arrangements to go through Russia the customs fees, transit taxes, or whatever we are calling them these days will cost a fortune. If World Wide or KBR purchase their foodstuffs from these countries we may be able to limit our need for the Pakistani route but I don't think we can eliminate it.
    "I can change almost anything ... but I can't change human nature."

    Jon Osterman/Dr. Manhattan
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  6. #26
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    Default Don't create a center of gravity

    Even if the Pakistan route wasn't challenged, we should not create a vulnerable friendly center of gravity by only having one primary logistics route. I'm glad to see they're looking at and developing additional routes, but I doubt there is any plan to shut down current routes.

    Maybe it has been written elsewhere, but it seems that the logistics effort to support a conflict in a land locked country like Afghanistan must be a tremendous effort not only at the logistics level, but at the diplomatic level. There are probably several unsong logistics heros that we need to recognize.

    No one notices good logistical support, we only complain when the system isn't working.

    Happy New Years to all you loggies out there.

  7. #27
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Updates on logistics

    Over the past couple of weeks other sites have run news stories on interruptions to the Khyber Pass route and I've not posted them.

    Here are a few:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...te-for-US.html

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...Yymg4a7RByyHOg
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 01-21-2009 at 08:24 PM.

  8. #28
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    Default The Russian route .....

    from the NY Times:

    U.S. Secures New Supply Routes to Afghanistan
    By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
    Published: January 20, 2009

    ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Faced with the risk that Taliban attacks could imperil the main supply route for NATO troops in Afghanistan, the United States military has obtained permission to move troop supplies through Russia and Central Asia, Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top American commander in the Middle East, said on Tuesday.

    About three-quarters of NATO supplies are normally shipped into Afghanistan from western Pakistan, most of them through the Khyber Pass, an ancient trade and military gateway that lies just west of the Pakistani frontier hub of Peshawar.
    ....
    “It is very important as we increase the effort in Afghanistan that we have multiple routes that go into the country,” General Petraeus told reporters in Islamabad, where he had met with the head of the Pakistani Army as well as the country’s president and prime minister. The general had previously visited Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan to discuss the issue.

    “There have been agreements reached, and there are transit lines now and transit agreements for commercial goods and services in particular that include several countries in the Central Asian states and also Russia,” he said.

    Russia is the principal source of fuel for the alliance’s needs in Afghanistan, and the Kremlin already allows the shipment of nonlethal supplies bound for Afghanistan to travel across Russian territory by ground.

  9. #29
    Council Member Surferbeetle's Avatar
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    Default And more folks pull up to the poker table...

    From Reuters; Afghanistan, India unveil strategic road

    By Jonathon Burch

    KABUL, Jan 22 (Reuters) - Afghan President Hamid Karzai and India's foreign minister opened a new road on Thursday that will help link Afghanistan with a port in Iran and challenge Pakistani dominance of trade routes into the landlocked country.

    The 220-km (135-mile) road in the southwest Afghan province of Nimroz is the centrepiece of a $1.1 billion Indian reconstruction effort in Afghanistan. It has drawn sniping from Pakistan, worried about its rival's growing influence there.

    India, denied access through Pakistan, hopes to be able to deliver goods to Afghanistan through the Iranian port of Chahbahar, and this has triggered fears in Pakistan it is being encircled.
    Sapere Aude

  10. #30
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    Default RUS Clarifies It's Only NON-Military Stuff Allowed Thru

    Russia not permit US, NATO military transit to Afghanistan
    ITAR-TASS, 22 Jan 09
    Article link - .pdf permalink
    Russia did not permit the United States and NATO to transit military supplies across the country to Afghanistan, Russian Military Representative to NATO General of the Army Alexei Maslov told Itar-Tass on Thursday.

    “No official documents were submitted to Russia’s permanent mission in NATO certifying that Russia had authorized U.S. and NATO military supplies transit across the country,” he said in comments on some media reports about a statement which Commander of the U.S. Central Command General David Petraeus has recently made in Islamabad concerning alleged agreements with Russia and other countries bordering Russia on alternative transit routes for U.S. and NATO military supplies to Afghanistan.

    Russia has concluded with NATO and two NATO states the agreements on transit of non-military supplies in Afghanistan.....

  11. #31
    Former Member George L. Singleton's Avatar
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    Default To our English Cousin

    As we are into 2009 your earlier post regarding use of the Port of Karachi causes me to offer some first hand experience observations.

    I used to (1963-1965) run all movement of men, material, food stuffs, whatever, from Port of Karachi up to our former US Air Base at Peshawar (Badabar).

    In those days there was one single rail line north, which went into Peshawar.

    Back then supplies for the old US Embassy in Kabul was also part of my bailiwick. I shipped same via rail (you do use air on occasion but not for expendibles in a constant resupply pipeline that works as well and more cheaply via rail) stuff for Kabul to Peshawar.

    At Peshawar supplies/foodstuffs headed to Kabul were off loaded onto hired local carrier trucks and taken via the Khyber Pass to Kabul.

    I suspect the same routing as involves Port of Karachi to Afghanistan, primarily Kabul, is still used today, railroad from Karachi to Peshawar, thence by truck into Kabul.

    However, with the completion of the Port of Gwatar near the border with Iran on the Arabian Sea, I would hope that at the least a railroad spur has been built up past the sprawling city of Karachi to join into the existing main/single rail line into Peshawar, and the shipment of supplies and food stuffs would proceed as just described from Karachi from Gwadar.

    It would be revolutionary and great news IF the Chinese, who built and paid for the Port of Gwadar also have singly or jointly together with the Government of Pakistan built another railroad line north, but I doubt that was done, a mere educated guess on my part.

    Airlifting of critical material, and of all personnel, is the name of the game in the past and likely today, as well.

    With military personnel airlifted you do not even have to pass over or go through Pakistan at all, shipping personnel from Europe.

    The new supply route(s), land, which Russia is newly providing and which I reasonably assume are at least in part already in use are/is good news and should help, as security via Russia will be much easier and better vs. through the troubles with terrorists inside Pakistan.

    How is the weather in UK? My actualy English first cousin says you have had a real snow in late 2008 that slowed everyone down for a few days.

    Cheers.

  12. #32
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Quick reply

    George,

    Been awhile since I was in Pakistan and I do recall the railway network was hardly effiecent. IIRC I did not see a single moving train in my travels around Punjab and NWFP.

    I would be very surprised if any new railway lines have been laid, Pakistan had invested in moving freight by trucks - an industry dominated by Afghan drivers. That the Chinese would have built a line, I'll ask around. There is some irony if they had built a new line useful for Western forces.

    Finally, yes snow has been forecast and so far minus temperatures overnight, a little snow so far.

    davidbfpo

  13. #33
    Former Member George L. Singleton's Avatar
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    Default Thanks for your inquiry to learn about RR line (new?)

    Thanks for your resposne.

    As I wrote, 46 to 44 years ago (1963-65) the single RR line north from Karachi was in heavy use and we used it every single week to move cargo north to Peshawar/US Air Base there.

    Be interested if the Chinese have built a feeder or spur track line into existing RR; a totally new line to north; or nothing at all. I suspect a spur/connector RR line would make common sense, but only a guess.

    In my antique day Lehland Motors in Pakistan was represented by Tim (Timothy) George, a tall redheaded, freckle faced Scottsman. We were good friends.

    Have a good snow time,
    George

  14. #34
    Council Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Default Pakistani militants cut off key NATO supply line to Afghanistan

    Pakistani militants cut off key NATO supply line to Afghanistan
    The attack highlights the need for alternative routes.
    By Liam Stack, CSM

    Islamist militants in Pakistan blew up a bridge through the mountainous Khyber Pass early on Tuesday, severing a key supply route for US and NATO troops in Afghanistan. Periodic attacks on the route have pushed the international forces to seek alternative ones outside Pakistan.

    All traffic on the bridge has come to a halt, The Press Trust of India reports, including dozens of supply trucks bound for US and NATO forces.

    The bridge connects Peshawar, the largest city in the Northwest Frontier Province, with the Khyber Pass, the primary route into Afghanistan.

    Militants have harassed NATO supply lines in northwest Pakistan for several months, conducting ambushes on convoys and attacking truck depots in Peshawar itself, according to the news service. It says Tuesday's bridge attack may be a result of increased security at supply depots.
    v/r

    Mike

  15. #35
    Former Member George L. Singleton's Avatar
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    Default Blown bridge near Khyber Pass can be fixed pdq

    The Tuesday, Feb. 3, 2009 blowing up of a/the supply route bridge to and from Afghanistan from Peshawar via the Khyber Pass is another move by the terrorists which again causes or forces Pakistan's hand to "defend" it's alleged tribal belt terrories, which for some time now are for all practical purposes areas in revolt and clearly not under the writ of law nor protection of the forces of Pakistan.

    Terrorists are annoying the Pakistani Frontier Corp (FC) and the regular Pakisani Army, along with local police, etc.

    A big problem is the fact that both the Taliban and also are a large part of the Pak military presence in these tribal areas are all ethnic Pukhtuns, some are even close kin. There is a real danger of Pak military forces in this area revolting against Pakistan, which is why I believe Govt. of Pakistan keeps "negotiating" instead of fighting and securing and permanently manning for security all these widespread tribal areas.

    It is up to the Government and military of Pakistan to man permanently posts all along this supply route to stop this nonsense.

    Failure to do so means Russian routes are "cheaper" now as any route that works is cheaper than 100% air lift which is what the on again, off again, on again Pak supply route is these days.
    Last edited by George L. Singleton; 02-03-2009 at 06:03 PM.

  16. #36
    Former Member George L. Singleton's Avatar
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    Default NATO supplies starting to move again from Pakistan

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...militants.html

    This article from yesteday's LONDON TELEGRAPH notes that already where a 100 foot iron bridge was blown yesterday that a diversion across a dried up stream bed is working to bypass the bridge, while the bridge is quickly being repaired.

    Note there is another road route further south in Pakistan into Kandahar Provience in Afghanistan.

    Negotiations are underway by some European NATO folks with Iran, very interesting.

    And of course we/US have a plan being perfected now with Russia and the Stans to the north of Afghanistan.

    The Taliban and al Qaida cannot stem the tide which by a year from now should find them "under water" or having capitulated (the Taliban).

    Eventually, I envision a moderated Taliban turned loose to wipe out al Qaida. Interesting?
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-04-2009 at 08:54 PM. Reason: Tidy up spelling

  17. #37
    Council Member Danny's Avatar
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    Default Better routes

    I won't rehearse my own articles on this, but several things.

    First, we are empowering Russia, and she is only a temporary "friend," soon to be erstwhile friend (in fact, in my estimation, she remains an enemy posing as a friend). Russia wants the U.S. to go through Russia and only Russia for supplies, with leverage, therefore, concerning what we do with Georgia and then the Ukraine concerning possible NATO entry among other things.

    A better route (again, I have posted extensively on this) is through the Caspian region, bypassing Russia completely. Somewhat more problematic, but nevertheless able to be done.

    It's good that supplies are moving again, but note this that I linked in my most recent on logistics:

    http://www.military.com/news/article...tml?ESRC=eb.nl

    For the Taliban to succeed is easy. Bombs in the middle of the night and there goes the next bridge. And the next one, and then 100 more trucks carrying supplies to us in Afghanistan after an attack on depots causing fire.

    I wish I could share your idyllic view of a moderated Taliban, but there are absolutely no signs of such a thing happening, nor does there appear to be any reason on the horizon to make such a thing happen without forces and COIN (and then it is still dubious).

    Nor, I would point out, does there necessarily have to be a reason for this. Why must we co-opt them if they are 25,000 fighters out of millions and the population really doesn't want them around? This is not the same thing as the indigenous Sunni fighters in Anbar who were supported by the population.

    As for this "moderated Taliban," I'll bet you a six pack of Shiner Bock that it won't happen. Are we on?

    Best,

    HPS

  18. #38
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    Default Through Iran

    It's the obvious choice.

    Now you smart guys can work the details.

  19. #39
    Council Member bourbon's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Eagle View Post
    Through Iran
    I think our allies that are on more cordial terms with Iran may pursue this. I say this not to denigrate our allies, rather because it is the obvious choice and is not inconceivable. All countries involved would try to hide it the best they can.

  20. #40
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Via Iran?

    A long time ago I referred to some West European nations using a route via Iran, which was mentioned during the diplomacy over Iran's nuclear weapons programme and UN sanctions - alas reference not retained. The article indicated use of the Iranian route influenced the stance taken by some West European nations. I would suggest France, Germany and Italy are possible users of this route. IIRC there is a railway line to an Iranian city near Herat and this can link back to Turkey, or maybe Gulf ports?

    Using other routes via Russia etc are fine in principle, but have immense problems and will investment be needed?

    This aspect of the campaign in Afghanistan will continue to appear.

    davidbfpo

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