Exum vs. Ricks vs. Gentile vs. Prine

[Cavguy]

Interesting and emotional discussion over at Abu M over Ricks' new book and its winners and losers.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?bl...36754182659039

[J Wolfsberger]

I'm only a quarter through the book, but it is obviously a social/political history (not a military history). The two stories being told are:

1. How did the change in political direction come to take place? That is, how did Pres. Bush come to oust Rumsfield and give control of the war over to a group of people who would implement a strategy at odds with Army institutional attitudes.

2. How did the US Army transform itself into an (arguably) effective COIN force? "Arguably" only because I don't want to digress into the whole can of worms about how to conduct COIN. The point is, a lot of people recognized we were going in the wrong direction and went to great effort to change direction.

Who moved troops where and when and why and etc. is completely beside the points the book is making.

[MikeF]

I'm losing sleep sorting through the book

I'm enjoying Ricks' observations and perspective on the strategic and operational level, but he has left out significant tactical narratives. I suppose this history is simply too rich and too new to be told now.

Off the top of my head, five major battles were neglected:

Pre-Surge:
1. Nov 2006: Battle of Turki Village: movement to contact, 5-73 Recon killing 110 enemy.
2. Jan 2007: Battle of Turki Village II: Clearance of AQI training camp, 5-73 Recon and 3/1 CAV, 250 EKIA.
3. Feb 2007: Battle outside Najaf: 3/2 Strykers and SF killed 300 EKIA.

Surge
4. March-July 2007: Battle of Baqubah: 3/1 CAV and 3/2 Strykers
5. March-Aug 2007: Battle of Diyala River Valley, 5-73 Recon and 3/1 CAV

Several KEY BCT and BN Commanders were left out- COL David Sutherland, COL Townsend, and COL Andrew Poppas. Not to mention COL John Charlton's and 3/3 ID efforts following Niel's success in Anbar.


v/r

Mike

[Cavguy]

I'm losing sleep sorting through the book

I'm enjoying Ricks' observations and perspective on the strategic and operational level, but he has left out significant tactical narratives. I suppose this history is simply too rich and too new to be told now.

Off the top of my head, five major battles were neglected:

Pre-Surge:
1. Nov 2006: Battle of Turki Village: movement to contact, 5-73 Recon killing 110 enemy.
2. Jan 2007: Battle of Turki Village II: Clearance of AQI training camp, 5-73 Recon and 3/1 CAV, 250 EKIA.
3. Feb 2007: Battle outside Najaf: 3/2 Strykers and SF killed 300 EKIA.

Surge
4. March-July 2007: Battle of Baqubah: 3/1 CAV and 3/2 Strykers
5. March-Aug 2007: Battle of Diyala River Valley, 5-73 Recon and 3/1 CAV

Several KEY BCT and BN Commanders were left out- COL David Sutherland, COL Townsend, and COL Andrew Poppas. Not to mention COL John Charlton's and 3/3 ID efforts following Niel's success in Anbar.


v/r

Mike

He does reference Townsend and the SBCT he commanded in his para about the promotion board he chaired, and 1/3 ID gets credit for following 1/1's start and the Battle of Donkey Island is briefly mentioned.

As I mentioned on AM's comment thread, and Ken says above - he's writing a narrative, not a history. As such, there is already much teeth grinding over 2d squad, 2d Plt, B Company, 69th Infantry's omission from the book. With all of them - you have to evaluate - did the inclusion or exclusion significantly impact the validity or outcome of Ricks' narrative?

I also remind a lot of mil guys - there were very few reporters and a lot of battles. If you haven't written the 1st hand article on an event you were involved in, do so and send it to the appropriate branch pub or military mag. One reason 1/1 and 2-37 AR have been heavily written about is that their commanders took the time to write their experiences for publication.

In another thread I took a 2ACR SGT to task for complaining about his unit's exclusion in Martha Radditz's "The Long Road Home". I then asked if anyone had written their story or told it outside the unit. The answer, of course, was no.

No writing, no publicity/credit/honor for your guys and their efforts.

(Not directed at you Mike, but I hear this a lot)

Niel

[MikeF]

From J. Wolfsberger:

I'm only a quarter through the book, but it is obviously a social/political history (not a military history). The two stories being told are:

Thanks. Now, I understand Ricks intent a bit better. On a positive note, he is at least sharing the story to an uniformed American populace.

(Not directed at you Mike, but I hear this a lot)

Niel

Spot on. That's why I keep nudging my buddies, peers, and subordinates to write

I think I figured out the storyline for Ricks follow on book. COL Gentile, historian, writes the comprehensive history of Operation Iraqi Freedom ten years from now when the dust is settled. Gentile's works sparks a massive overhaul of DoD to prepare for Conventional, Hybrid, and IW warfare. Ricks can then do a character transformation with Gentile as he did with Odierno from Fiasco to Gamble.

v/r

Mike

[Schmedlap]

In the grand scheme of things, were those battles all that significant?

My unit spent a year unscrewing an insurgent safe haven in 2005, only to have an entire year's worth of work undone in a month because our AOR was handed off not to a US force, but to an undermanned, poorly trained, poorly equipped, poorly led IA unit when we rotated home. My fondest, proudest memories in uniform were in 2005, where we got zero support from our disinterested BDE and hapless DIV, but still managed to stomp the crap out of insurgents and terrorists for 12 months. Regardless, I'll be the first to admit that, in the grand scheme of things, it was irrelevant, because every bit of progress that we made was deliberately squandered by handing off responsibility of the AOR to the IA before they were ready for it. I don't say that lightly. We had a lot of KIAs and amputees.

A lot of our guys did some incredible things that went unappreciated outside of our unit. They earned ARCOMs and Bronze Stars for acts that, if performed nearer to BDE headquarters, would have earned Silver Stars. But, if it's not relevant to the grand scheme of things, then I see no reason for its inclusion in this particular book. Maybe some day it will make for good fodder for a documentary, when all of those young guys are wrinkled old men with VFW and AmLeg hats.

[MikeF]

In the grand scheme of things, were those battles all that significant?

A lot of our guys did some incredible things that went unappreciated outside of our unit.

Schmedlap, I generally agree with you. I can feel your pain on watching success crumble after RIP/TOAs and soldiers awarded Arcoms and AAMs; however, I have to take issue with the significance comment.

I can only speak for 5-73 as I was not with the Strykers. All of our operations were nested with the BCT, DIV, and CORPs campaign plans.

Significant achievements outside of tactical accomplishments:

1. Defeated two AQI training camps pushing fighters into Baqubah, Baghdad, and Saudi Arabia. (Strategic).
2. Stopped a potential genocide between both Sunni and Sectarian forces. (Strategic).
3. We turned an economy of force shaping mission into a major campaign. (Operational).

I apologize for the rant, but throughout the fighting, our 300 man squadron suffered 23 KIA and 100 WIA. The significance matters to me. LTG Caldwell summed up the squadron's operational effect here. As I stated initially, I usually agree with you, but in this case I think you are being far too pessimistic. Our story simply hasn't been told yet.

v/r

Mike

[Ken White]

you that it's emotional. Also agree with the Anonymous poster who there who said "This thread is evidence of that fact due to the ignorant trolls who showed up with y*****be quality comments."or words to that effect.

Not that Tom Ricks, AM or anyone else cares but put me down for siding solidly with Carl Prine on this one.

I also agree with J. Wolfsberger, it is emphatically a political and social screed, not a military history simply because the author is not a military historian and doesn't claim to be; he's a journalist turned writer which tilts him almost automatically into the social and political trivia and gossip arena. The world is full of such books, most hardly worth the price IMO (YMMV). Haven't read it so cannot comment on its quality but if it echoes the overall quality of Fiasco, I don't expect to either learn much or be impressed by the book.