Pretty much what I was thinking; and it came out the day of those tea parties, right? Interesting timing there...maybe to remind everyone that saw the tea parties on TV "these are the people in the DHS report we (FEDs) were talking about". I really hope not. I would hate for this to have been a political stunt.Originally Posted by Schmedlap
I sometimes fear that partisanship will destroy this country.
Sir, what the hell are we doing?
The Militia movement that emerged in the 1990’s was decentralized, diverse, and for the most part localized. While it would be wrong to use broad brush strokes in describing it, two key central themes emerge: 1.) a visceral opposition to gun control, and 2.) a deep seated mistrust of the Federal government which is viewed as invasive and attacking personal liberties and freedoms.
This movement’s emergence cannot be described without acknowledging three specific events: Ruby Ridge in 1992, Waco 1993, and the signing of The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act later in 1993 followed by provisions in the Violent Crime Control Act of 1994. This gun control legislation was a significant departure from traditional gun rights and ownership practices, which exacerbated fears of a threatening Federal government.
Further, in the tragic events of Waco and Ruby Ridge the issue of gun rights and ownership were absolutely central. I believe the government’s actions preceding and following the Ruby and Waco cases, in addition to behavior on the Left and the Right; fed a reinforcing feedback loop of paranoia between the Government, media, the “Far Right-Wing”, and the rest of the country. Tim McVeigh incidentally was never found to be a member of a militia organization; however, it is clear this culture of paranoia and fear was significant in his radicalization.
I do not foresee future Presidential administrations, Republican or Democrat, abandoning the increased powers accumulated under the previous administrations eight years in office. It is possible with the Democrats in power that we will some new gun control legislation; though I think some Dems have realized that gun control is a political loser. I believe the forces may be brewing for something similar to what I described above; and as I said before, I do not think it is inaccurate or out of line to surmise that a small number of micro-actors will radicalize in this climate. This is an issue that deserves our attention; and should not be sensationalized ala Garofalo, or dismissed out of hand.
Change the direction given?
Law enforcement intelligence for a variety of reasons will report on the threat from the extremes; which may include single issue groups which are neither 'right' or 'left'.
Who set the requirements for the DHS report, research and more? If those requirements were changed - when aware of the political arena - such reports would disappear.
What intent and capability do these groups have?
The extreme 'left' and 'right' are reported upon as they are traditional LE targets and traditionally vulnerable to infiltration and informants. The newer groups, like Climate Change are not so easy. Particularly as public opinion shifts around on the issue(s) and what level of activity is seen as legitimate.
Finally I've not read the DHS reports themselves, just some of the reporting and a document on Virginia's threat assessment, which appeared on another website.
davidbfpo
Draw your own conclusion as to the danger ....
The Michigan Militia of Norman Olson, wiki here and 1998 archived website here, was more a figment of Mr Olson's imagination than anything real. As posted above, there was a 1996 arrest of some Battle Creek militia who were playing with things they weren't supposed to have - that was the last Michigan incident I know of.
The present Michigan Militia (several small groups) has a harmless rhetoric - and expresses a view on the DHS report that can be found here.
Perhaps, the Militia Babes are more of a threat - you may judge.
While I'll stick with the half-dozen local gun clubs (e.g., Ottawa - decent ranges), I'll also not lose any sleep over the present Michigan Militia.
Websites like Stormfront are another kettle of fish. While a lot said there is rhetoric, the sheer volume of posts suggests that there may be some who walk that walk beyond the talk.
Stormfront activists are not primarily motivated by 1.) a visceral opposition to gun control, and 2.) a deep seated mistrust of the Federal government which is viewed as invasive and attacking personal liberties and freedoms.
Many, very law abiding citizens, who happen to own guns, are influenced by those two considerations; but not by Stormfront.
Old lawyer proverb runs: If the law is on your side, argue the law. If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If neither is on your side, call your opponent a schmuck. In this case, seems that some in DHS would like to substitute "fascist" for "schmuck".
Ruby Ridge, Tim McVeigh, Gordon Kahl and the Posse Commatatus, all of these events did not inspire much collective action on the part of adherents to said philosophies and politics. Guns and taxes are fertile ground for strong rhetoric but in good times, they lose their punch as motivators. The ideology of some of the Leftist groups, i.e. ELF, seems more enduring and consistent as a motivator. There have been gun-grab scenarios floating around for as long as I can remember with no real mob action.
Suspect in robbery homicide ran Minuteman splinter group:
New Border Fear: Violence by a Rogue Militia, by Jesse McKinley and Malia Wollan. The New York Times, June 26, 2009.
Woman held in 2 slayings an outcast, activists say: But Shawna Forde had high-level contacts in Minuteman movement despite extreme views, by Tim Steller. Arizona Daily Star, June 28, 2009.The three people arrested in the crime include the leader of Minutemen American Defense, a Washington State-based offshoot of the Minutemen movement, in which citizens roam the border looking for people crossing into the country illegally. Former members describe the group’s leader, Shawna Forde, 41, as having anti-immigrant sentiments that are extreme, at times frightening, even to people accustomed to hard-line views on border policing.
The authorities say that the three suspects were after money and drugs that they intended to use to finance vigilantism, and that members of the group may have been involved in at least one other home invasion, in California.
A bad article by the NYT imo, the Star article has more detail. The Times headline seems sensationalistic at this point, we'll see where this goes.In 2007, Forde applied to join Simcox's group, Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, and was allowed in on a probationary basis, said group Vice President Al Garza and founder Simcox, who left the group this year to run for the U.S. Senate. The group vetted her through interviews and a background check, members said.
"Within a few weeks, she was so assertive, wanting to take charge and wanting to be a spokesperson," Simcox said.
"She lasted less than six months. After that, she went and tried other groups," he said. "She thrust herself into the movement where no one else wanted her."
"It's a hodgepodge of folks"
The world she entered is a set of individuals and groups, many using the word "Minuteman" in their name, many harboring hostilities with each other. They share an interest in stopping illegal immigration.
READY TO REVOLT: Oath Keepers pledges to prevent dictatorship in United States - Group asks police and military to lay down arms in response to orders deemed unlawful, by Alan Maimon. Las Vegas Review-Journal, Oct. 18, 2009.
I’m scratching my head about this one. Not sure if this is the appropriate thread to post it, had never heard of this group.Depending on your perspective, the Oath Keepers are either strident defenders of liberty or dangerous peddlers of paranoia.
In the age of town halls, talk radio and tea parties, middle ground of opinion is hard to find.
Launched in March by Las Vegan Stewart Rhodes, Oath Keepers bills itself as a nonpartisan group of current and retired law enforcement and military personnel who vow to fulfill their oaths to the Constitution.
More specifically, the group's members, which number in the thousands, pledge to disobey orders they deem unlawful, including directives to disarm the American people and to blockade American cities. By refusing the latter order, the Oath Keepers hope to prevent cities from becoming "giant concentration camps," a scenario the 44-year-old Rhodes says he can envision happening in the coming years.
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