Quote Originally Posted by Bob's World View Post
David, the type of self determination we are talking about among disaffected European Muslims is not that of a nation of people seeking governance determined by themselves rather than some foreign, and therefore illegitimate, power.

What we are talking about is a vital sub-set of that same principle - one I think of as Empowerment.

For me, this is belief that I and a critical segment of the population that I identify with, have available to us trusted, certain and legal means to participate fairly and adequately in the political process of the place we live. This is heavily colored by cultural expectations and perception.

This is why one cornerstone of the US civil rights reforms of the 1960s was the Voting Rights Acts. That was what we needed in the US at that time to begin creating a sense of empowerment, and why there was such a powerful reaction when President Obama was elected.
Bob,

My remarks only refer to the UK, not Europe.

'Disaffected Muslims' are a very small minority, within whom some have been and are being radicalised to use violence abroad and at home. They already have access to power here, but remain a minority and the majority appear to have rejected their demands. How can these people be empowered further?

One issue is that the 'disaffected Muslims' have failed to mobilise other Muslims. Nor are British Muslims a coherent group, except when practising their faith. There is no single, legimitimate public body to represent them for example. Many Muslims, especially those of Kashmiri / Pakistani origin, supported the Labour Party and generally remain loyal, if reluctant voters.

If you compare the influence the British Jewish community (which is more cohesive, but not always united) has on UK politics it is far greater than that the Muslim communities have - this is very noticeable in the two main parties in parliament.

We know what the jihadists and their non-violent followers seek already. First and foremost that the UK radically changes its foreign policy, for example ending support for the USA. Their goal of a society that turns to a particular school of Muslim thought and practice - would require them to be a majority, which is simply hard to imagine.