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Thread: Gangs Claim Their Turf in Iraq

  1. #21
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Hey Slapout,
    Thanks for the cultural enhancement !
    I have this feeling (the GPS Chip on my shoulder) you actually saw this as an LE.
    Hats off to you !
    Regards, Stan

  2. #22
    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
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    We are already seeing the effects of well trained and experienced soldiers and Marines back in CONUS engaging in criminal activities. There have been several incidents of Police officers being shot by disturbed vets using assault rifles and CQB tactics out west. There was also a recent bank job in Seattle allegedly by several active members of the 2/75. Their "Actions on the Objective" were very professional but they neglected to think out a better infil/exfil plan and were quickly caught.

    I don't think we have to worry much about any potential nexus between our bangers and the Jihadists. The bangers are looking for easy money and prestige/respect and there would be tremendous coordination problems between them and the more religious inspired extremists.

    As for the white supremacist/seperatist movements working with any Jihadist groups, I also think it would be very difficult. While there has been mention of several groups that gave praise for 9-11 on their websites, those particular groups are marginalized even within their own movement and are very fragmented with dwindling numbers.

    I think one of the main L.E. threats in the near future will be the proliferation of banger types who are well trained and experienced from their service time and back on the streets. They will have a lower reluctance to use force and will be far more capable in applying it.

  3. #23
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Default David Duke and the KKK in Iran

    Here is an interesting connection of the KKK to terrorism.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236014,00.html

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9
    Here is an interesting connection of the KKK to terrorism.

    KKK's David Duke Tells Iran Holocaust Conference That Gas Chambers Not Used to Kill Jews
    ...I would take care to qualify that. Duke's visit to that conference in Iran is only indicative of shared anti-Semitic ideology and a desire for publicity. To state factually that the KKK has active operational links to Iranian and/or Iranian supported terrorist groups/activities requires much more in the way of intelligence than the expected media reporting on an overt, highly-publicized and intensely monitored event.

  5. #25
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Jed, I agree completely, it is more publicity and maybe feeling out a fund raising source than anything else. Duke is good at that. what I thought was unique and tends to prove your point (other posts) is he approached them!! Not the other way around. I don't think the Jihad wants anything to do with them because they are VERY WELL MONITORED in the US.

    If their are international terrorist linkages between US located hate groups (I don't know myself) I think they would go through the Transnational Latin Gangs. It would just be to easy that way and many of them are nothing but stone cold killers. MS-13 has openly stated many times they will engage LE officers by any means necessary. They are close to being like the group called the "Weathermen" of the early 70's they shot a lot of Policeman just to do it.

    In the end they are all gangs to me anyway drug,terrorist, insurgents,hate groups, some just have more money and operate over larger areas and have differant motives but a gang is a gang is a gang.


    Forgot hi Stan, your GPS chip is right but anybody in LE sooner or later will run in this. People have no idea how big it is.
    Last edited by slapout9; 02-12-2007 at 12:50 AM. Reason: say hi to Stan

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9
    ...I don't think the Jihad wants anything to do with them because they are VERY WELL MONITORED in the US.

    If their are international terrorist linkages between US located hate groups (I don't know myself) I think they would go through the Transnational Latin Gangs. It would just be to easy that way and many of them are nothing but stone cold killers...
    That talks to the point I've been trying to make, perhaps not clearly enough on my part.

    As Bill mentioned in his first post in this thread, to date we have seen limited exploitation of the networks of both international organized crime and sophisticated transnational gangs by terrorists. The realization of the full potential for effective exploitation of such networks for logistics and other operational support by terrorists is a nightmare scenario that has had a significant chunk of the community concerned for a while. However, whether it remains limited to minor activities or becomes a key node in the development of a catastrophic terrorist attack, this doesn't mean that the criminals are actually allied with Al-Qa'ida, its imitators or any terrorist that makes use of them - in such a situation, they are simply conducting a criminal activity for a fee. Rarely are searching questions when conducting those transactions - as long as the money is good.

    Both international organized crime and transnational gangs, by their very nature, can provide services-for-hire to an operational terrorist cell attempting to obtain or smuggle in weapons, explosives or people. Other support functions such as acquiring vehicles or small boats and aircraft with no paper trail, money laundering, and the provision of a wide variety of forged documentation are also readily available. A professionally-run compartmented terrorist organization, with dispersed and disposable operational cells acting under the guidance of disassociated leadership is already difficult to roll up. By exploitating such support activities that a more conventional-type terror organization would try to fill with its own support/logistics cells or by support from known friendly states or other known, allied non-state actors puts a degree of separation in the lead-up to a terrorist attack that it makes it even more difficult to detect.

    Establishing these operational linkages with groups known to share elements of their ideology and goals is not only unnecessary, it poses a greater risk of operational compromise. It just ain't smart.

  7. #27
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    Default Outsourcing

    Jed, I found your points very interesting, but I wouldn't simply disregard a potential course of action because it isn't smart business. Our enemies make mistakes, just like the so called well trained Rangers who robbed the bank in the NW. None the less I concur with your analysis.

    I can't recall if I mentioned it earlier, but the book "Illicit" is eye opening on the merging of various criminal and legal networks to facilitate smuggling (and other types of criminal/insurgent/terrorist activities). Friedman's book, "The World is Flat" is a must read for understanding the new world order, and then read Illicit to see how the underworld is adapting to globalism. Borrowing a phrase from John Robb, there are numerous centers of excellence that terrorists can outsource business to that will smuggle their weapons, people, knowledge, etc. to designated target areas. You're right, it is a potential nightmare scenario. Using cut outs and electronic fund transfers it provides both players with a relative high degree of security.

  8. #28
    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
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    I could see the smaller scale, home grown, entities dealing with regular Organized Crime elements or street gangs as part of their normal routine. In most cases, they probably already are, either for operational purposes or for "fund raising." Illicit or illegal entities have to flock together to a certain extent. But, I can't see the varsity squads doing it for OPSEC purposes.

    There is just too much at risk. The old adage, "that there isn't any honor among thieves" proves itself again and again. When faced with serious time almost all of them will roll. In a recent roll up, where I work, of a criminal group from a specific regional area one of the subjects fled back to a total hellhole in Africa instead of risking getting Federal time. No matter what your opinion is on our prison system, most suspects still prefer to avoid it.

    There is a difference between people motivated by greed and people motivated by ideology. One of my more interesting arrests over the years was of several White Power people who had been in a simple incident. Their entire demeanor was different than your usual suspect. During search incident to arrest, several had numerous papers that appeared to be in code. They were very connected with various groups that were big during that time frame. They lawyered up right away and wouldn't talk discuss any specifics to why they were under arrest but were very happy to converse with us. I had just got out of the Army as an Infantry Officer and could see that these guys had some discipline to them. They would constantly talk to us and include our names into it. It was obvious to me that they were trying to develop a rapport and burn our names and faces into their memories. When you ran their criminal histories all were for serious felony assaults and malicious harrassment(hate crimes) and not the usual drug arrests. I was a little more cautious for the next few months.

    Obviously, you can't discount anything, but I think our problems are not going to be from any coalitions of AQ and Hizbollah with our home growns. I hate to say it, but I would put money that Hezbollah has enough cells and support networks already here to even worry about that issue.

  9. #29
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    Default Not coalitions, business deals

    I don't think I would classify business deals as coalitions, unless it was long term strategic relationship, but your points are well taken. I owe some examples, but that will have to wait until I have time to pull my dog eared books off the shelf.

  10. #30
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    ...along the lines of what we've been discussing, I recommend the following as a good read:

    Methods and Motives: Exploring Links Between Transnational Organized Crime and International Terrorism

  11. #31
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    Default Cultural Barriers

    Aside from the obvious that home grown terrorists like the KKK and Aryan Nations don't have much to directly contribute to the likes of Al Qaidah, I think there would be some harsh cultural barriers that would inhidibit a coalition as well and would tend to keep them on a business level arrangement, cash for drugs, drugs for guns type arrangements. The Southern Poverty Law Center pretty much bankrupted the KKK and that isn't much to present on a resume' in seeking coalition partners with the likes of Al Qaidah. The KKK was easily infilitrated by the FBI too, another bad mark for any resume' for a proposed coalition.

  12. #32
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
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    Count me as a major skeptic of U.S. gang-terrorist interaction. Sorry, this just strikes me as major Tom Clancy paranoid territory.

    But when I saw these pictures, I thought perhaps I was wrong ... Fifty Cent in Beirut.

    I hope I'm not the only one in here young enough to know who Fifty Cent is ...

  13. #33
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    Default Right Wing Militias with chemical weapons

    Below is a link that Tequilla posted under the News section today, and one other supporting link. The story describes right wing terrorists attempting, a so called, WMD attack in Texas in 2003. I know 2003 was busy year for a lot of us, but I don't recall hearing about this. I think it is relevant, since we're talking about potential threat levels in this thread.

    http://www.thememoryhole.org/terror/tyler-terror.htm

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p02s01-usju.html

  14. #34
    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
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    Default Re:

    Yea, that was a legit deal. A lot of information was burning through the FOUO networks during that date/time frame. There has been at least another one group with the same type of ideology several years back that were involved in some plots but am not sure what can be discussed. They came to light when the bomb maker, thankfully for us, "scored an own goal" and blasted himself while building an IED.

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