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Thread: Fm 3-24.2

  1. #1
    Council Member RTK's Avatar
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    Default Fm 3-24.2

    The publish date was supposed to be mid December. Anyone have any word on when it will be out?
    Example is better than precept.

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    I remember getting a draft for comment over a year ago...it's taken a long time to get this published.

    I also think it's been released. I'll see what I dig up today at CGSC...I'm fairly certain it's been released. Do you need an electronic copy if I can find it?
    "Speak English! said the Eaglet. "I don't know the meaning of half those long words, and what's more, I don't believe you do either!"

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    A Final Draft, dated 17 Nov 08, is located here:

    FM 3-24.2 Tactics in Counterinsurgency AKO Log-in Required

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    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jedburgh View Post
    A Final Draft, dated 17 Nov 08, is located here:

    FM 3-24.2 Tactics in Counterinsurgency AKO Log-in Required
    Be aware this is a staffing draft.

    Currently it has been kicked back to Ft. Benning by CADD for some edits for consistency with higher, lower, and lateral documents. Benning will submit the final draft to CADD, who will review it again, and if all is well about 30 days past that it will be published as an FMI.

    At least that's the current plan.

    I would expect to see it on the street by the Summer, hopefully the spring.
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    Council Member Hacksaw's Avatar
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    Default Ahh Yeah...

    Can you tell me again how many angels dance on the head of that pin??

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    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Heh. Been my observation that the denizens of

    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksaw View Post
    Can you tell me again how many angels dance on the head of that pin??

    COIN Leader's Handbook:
    Building 4 on the Chatahoochee can cram many, many on a pin. Sideways at that. Upside down, too. Even forgetting why there is a pin on occasion..

    Guess where I learned to be so overly wordy???

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    The e-copy I have was also marked draft, RTK, and that was a NOV 08 version.
    "Speak English! said the Eaglet. "I don't know the meaning of half those long words, and what's more, I don't believe you do either!"

    The Eaglet from Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland

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    Council Member RTK's Avatar
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    Thank you, all.
    Example is better than precept.

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    Just shoot me now! Is someone putting me out of job?
    Last edited by ODB; 01-10-2009 at 06:43 AM.
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    Default out on AKO

    FM 3-24.2 MAR 09 is now available on AKO. Not sure if available to public yet.

    Downloaded and took a quick look. Its a beast at 300 pages, but looks like it has a lot of good info.

    Reading the intro, I had to laugh though. According to Army doctrine now, climate change is real. Paragraph 1-13. The debate is over.
    Last edited by Jedburgh; 03-16-2009 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Added link.
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    Council Member Ron Humphrey's Avatar
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    Default Without giving uo the farm

    Quote Originally Posted by patmc View Post
    FM 3-24.2 MAR 09 is now available on AKO. Not sure if available to public yet.

    Downloaded and took a quick look. Its a beast at 300 pages, but looks like it has a lot of good info.

    Reading the intro, I had to laugh though. According to Army doctrine now, climate change is real. Paragraph 1-13. The debate is over.
    Does the environment have a great effect on how one fights?

    If only life were so simple as we wish
    Any man can destroy that which is around him, The rare man is he who can find beauty even in the darkest hours

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    Default Climate change and the impact

    Reading the intro, I had to laugh though. According to Army doctrine now, climate change is real. Paragraph 1-13. The debate is over.
    I don't think anyone who is educated in the field denies climate change, the debate is over the cause. There is evidence of periods of climate in the earth's distant past, so it shouldn't be an overly difficult concept to grasp. We don't know if it is a relatively short term change, or a long term change that will have significant impacts.

    The so what factor of it are the largely unknown impacts on agriculture (food supplies), water, rising sea levels potentially displacing large populations (to where?), etc. In theory the cause of war could shift back to the basics, access to resources (water, ariable land, etc.) required for survival, instead of being largely ideologocially focused.

    Not exactly COIN, but think about it, our grand kids may not be focused so much on gaining legitimacy, but rather on eliminating the threat to our resources to ensure our survival.

    I do find it odd that it is addressed in the COIN FM though. What was the context?

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    Default agree

    I agree that it will have an impact on conflicts, as competition for limited resources increases.

    Just thought it was funny to see it in a FM. Will pundits on cable news or NY Times Op-Ed start quoting FM 3-24.2 in their debates?
    "What do you think this is, some kind of encounter group?"
    - Harry Callahan, The Enforcer.

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    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    I don't think anyone who is educated in the field denies climate change, the debate is over the cause. There is evidence of periods of climate in the earth's distant past, so it shouldn't be an overly difficult concept to grasp. We don't know if it is a relatively short term change, or a long term change that will have significant impacts.

    The so what factor of it are the largely unknown impacts on agriculture (food supplies), water, rising sea levels potentially displacing large populations (to where?), etc. In theory the cause of war could shift back to the basics, access to resources (water, ariable land, etc.) required for survival, instead of being largely ideologocially focused.

    Not exactly COIN, but think about it, our grand kids may not be focused so much on gaining legitimacy, but rather on eliminating the threat to our resources to ensure our survival.

    I do find it odd that it is addressed in the COIN FM though. What was the context?
    I don't think the climate change quip was meant to be anything other than a throwaway as to factors which may sustain insurgencies. I think it was meant to include the destabilizing effects of resource competition.
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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Default Anyone

    know when the public (non AKO) version is coming out? I'd like to take a glance through it and see if some of the wonkiness has been taken out. Then again, climate change?!?
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    I do find it odd that it is addressed in the COIN FM though. What was the context?
    It seems appropriate for future FMs covering the conduct of interplanetary warfare. Link

  17. #17
    Council Member Hacksaw's Avatar
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    Default In Re: MARCT

    Afraid it may be a long wait...

    FM 3-24.2 is meant to be the tactical-level companion to 3-24...

    That means the manual should informed and include TTPs from current operations...

    VCSA put that type of information behind the AKO firewall several years ago...

    I just did a cursory look through the logical places (Benning, TRADOC, CAC, COIN Center) that you might find it hung on a public website and came up dry...

    However, I'm not an authoritative source on whether it will be posted or not...

    CAVGUY???? Am I right or is there a place for the great unwashed to get their hands on the document???

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  18. #18
    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksaw View Post
    Afraid it may be a long wait...

    FM 3-24.2 is meant to be the tactical-level companion to 3-24...

    That means the manual should informed and include TTPs from current operations...

    VCSA put that type of information behind the AKO firewall several years ago...

    I just did a cursory look through the logical places (Benning, TRADOC, CAC, COIN Center) that you might find it hung on a public website and came up dry...

    However, I'm not an authoritative source on whether it will be posted or not...

    CAVGUY???? Am I right or is there a place for the great unwashed to get their hands on the document???

    Live well and row
    Standby - will be on http://coin.army.mil by end of the day with a blog post - was waiting for clearance from CADD before posting it for the masses. Got a go last night.
    "A Sherman can give you a very nice... edge."- Oddball, Kelly's Heroes
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    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavguy View Post
    Standby - will be on http://coin.army.mil by end of the day with a blog post - was waiting for clearance from CADD before posting it for the masses. Got a go last night.
    Good man!

    Best regards,

    Tom

  20. #20
    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
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    Default Up on SharePoint

    The Signed Ft. Benning version of FM 3-24.2 is now on our HarmonieWeb SharePoint - will be in the COIN.ARMY.MIL Knowledge Center by end of the day.

    Chapter 1 Operational Environment of Counterinsurgency
    Chapter 2 Foundations of Insurgency
    Chapter 3 Foundations of Counterinsurgency
    Chapter 4 Comprehensive Tactical Planning in Counterinsurgency
    Chapter 5 Offensive Considerations in Counterinsurgency
    Chapter 6 Defensive Considerations in Counterinsurgency
    Chapter 7 Stability Considerations in Counterinsurgency
    Chapter 8 Host Nation Security Forces
    Appendices:
    A IPB in COIN
    B Reading List for COIN Tactical Leaders
    C Twenty-Eight Articles
    D Twenty-Seven Articles
    "A Sherman can give you a very nice... edge."- Oddball, Kelly's Heroes
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