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Thread: SFA capability is rooted in Individual Talent (part 1)

  1. #41
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    Default Stan, your attitude

    has inspired me. If I ever have to go back to Haiti, I will find a way to make it work. In the meantime, I'll leave it to former Pres Bubba to "feel their pain."

    BTW, the motto of the Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group (AWG) is, "Normal is a cycle on the washing machine." Courtesy of COL Bob Shaw.

    Cheers

    JohnT

  2. #42
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John T. Fishel View Post
    has inspired me. If I ever have to go back to Haiti, I will find a way to make it work. In the meantime, I'll leave it to former Pres Bubba to "feel their pain."

    BTW, the motto of the Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group (AWG) is, "Normal is a cycle on the washing machine." Courtesy of COL Bob Shaw.

    Cheers

    JohnT
    Stan has an attitude!?!

    Say it ain't so, Stan!

    Bubba will fit right in with the UN crowd..

    Got a cigar?

    Tom

  3. #43
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default John, Talented people have...

    Attitudes !

    I googled it and low and behold: Managing Talented People With Bad Attitudes

    It would be nice if all talented people had great attitudes. But unfortunately, sometimes our most skilled people can be arrogant, narcissistic, dramatic or negative.
    I don't actually fit into any of the aforementioned as they left out Pain in the Alpha

    We call them Talented Terrors...But they also have lots of political clout and a track record of very good technical performance.
    Regards, Stan

    Quote Originally Posted by John T. Fishel View Post
    has inspired me. If I ever have to go back to Haiti, I will find a way to make it work. In the meantime, I'll leave it to former Pres Bubba to "feel their pain."

    BTW, the motto of the Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group (AWG) is, "Normal is a cycle on the washing machine." Courtesy of COL Bob Shaw.

    Cheers

    JohnT
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  4. #44
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    Default

    Greetings to ALCON in this interesting thread in SWJ.

    Ref CavGuy's good comment (pasted below this note for reference).

    Like CavGuy, I am also surprised (well, a tad astounded) that USAJFKSWCS has not grasped the mission to train US Army personnel -- those who are sourced from Big Army [non-SOF] units -- who are outbound for duty as foreign military advisors, or otherwise provided the DA-designated proponent elsewhere (FRKS/FPLA) with the SWC's rich lode of its institutional archives and SME input applicable to the pre-deployment ["quasi-MOSQ?"] training of MiTTs/ETTs, et al.

    Separate from the current staff and faculty running resident classes at USAJFKSWCS, the Marquat Memorial Library there has a repository of valuable, if not unique, and now-unclassified materials on TTPs, LLs, and AARs about SFA-related topics, including MTTs, NETTs, FID, SFA, MTT, NETTs, "persuasion & influence operations" (for lack of a more-elegant descriptor), and related bilateral people-to-people activities conducted within, and across, cultures and their operating environments.

    Re using SF units to assume the lead in providing MiTTs: I have the impression that SF units (both AC & RC) units are decisively engaged in DA & SR missions (a few may be doing FID and SFA-type missions outside the OEF and OIF AOs, but they all are still very busy, in any case).

    I also concur with CavGuy's observation about the mixed benefit of the initial recourse to use a USAR Training Division to set up and conduct the early round of MiTT training at Camp Funston. (As I recall, elements of that same training division later were deployed to Iraq to support BCT of the "new" Iraqi Army, but I don't know what was the track record or final results of that enterprise.)

    Still curious about where and how JCISFA fits into the scheme of things in terms of the content for training MiTTs, as different from its good job in developing concepts and guidance.

    My mind boggles at the recent trend to tack on some augmentees -- without MiTT training (but maybe with some MiTT experience [?]) -- to the staffs of deploying BCTs so they can "advise & assist" the BCT- Augmented (aka "BCT-A") when that unit wedges the parallel "advise & assist" mission with its HN FSF counterpart along with its TOE mission. (By inference -- and realizing that I may misinformed or under-informed at this point -- the MiTT POI at FPLA will wind down, if not disappear?)

    Has Tom Odom returned to SWJ since his deployment to Iraq a month or so back?

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,

    Stephen H. Franke
    LTC, MI (FAO/SOF/SFA)
    USAR (Retired)
    San Pedro, California


    -------------------- BEGIN PASTE ----------------------

    Sir,

    Great post highlighting the challenges in training and mindset, and the failure of the AC/RC guys to build rapport and advise.

    I think we are saying the same thing, except from my view over the last few years, I have not seen SF actively seeking to shape the GPF advisory mission. We were forced to assign GPF soldiers as advisers in OIF and OEF because there aren't enough specifically-trained and -selected guys in your branch to do so.

    So the Army's first attempt was "Well, let's deploy the USAR Training Divisions as advisers, since it's a training mission." That was a disaster, as these great individuals were prepared to run basic training for US kids, not mentor Iraqi battalions. Then we created Ft. Riley, taking an Armored BDE (!) to run advisory training. Where was SWC? Hell if I know. It would seem a no-brainer that if SF couldn't fill the adviser demand, they should have at least run the training, since it's been the core competency of SF for the last three decades or so. But we didn't for whatever reasons. Same story for recent doctrine.

    In the two years I have worked at CAC as the ops officer for COIN, I have seen little interest from the US Army SF community in GPF efforts to get better at this. I can count on one hand the number of times anyone working for USASOC (excepting COL Maxwell/USASOC G3) has contacted the COIN center here about anything we are doing. Sure, they attend the occasional conference, but mostly, I have received the impression that most in SF just wished we would go away, usually muttering comments about "amateurs". People are doing the best they can with imperfect resources and less background to make this work. As a very-personal observation, SF seems to have schadenfreude over the whole GPF circus with building TTs. My perception is that they haven't been a big part of the solution.

    SOCOM is a different story, though; so is JSOU. They have been actively plugged into what has been developing. Just interesting to me.

    There's a big study coming up about SOF/GPF integration. I hope it produces something. So in a way, the SF have failed to advise/influence the GPF. Kind of reverse of what happened with your AC/RC experience.

    [/QUOTE]


    ---------------------- END PASTE ----------------------

  5. #45
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    Default CavGuy's good post

    Greetings to ALCON in this interesting thread in SWJ.

    Ref CavGuy's good comment (pasted below this note for reference).

    Like CavGuy, I am also surprised (well, a tad astounded) that USAJFKSWCS has not grasped the mission to train US Army personnel -- those who are sourced from Big Army [non-SOF] units -- who are outbound for duty as foreign military advisors, or otherwise provided the DA-designated proponent elsewhere (FRKS/FPLA) with the SWC's rich lode of its institutional archives and SME input applicable to the pre-deployment ["quasi-MOSQ?"] training of MiTTs/ETTs, et al.

    Separate from the current staff and faculty running resident classes at USAJFKSWCS, the Marquat Memorial Library there has a repository of valuable, if not unique, and now-unclassified materials on TTPs, LLs, and AARs about SFA-related topics, including MTTs, NETTs, FID, SFA, MTT, NETTs, "persuasion & influence operations" (for lack of a more-elegant descriptor), and related bilateral people-to-people activities conducted within, and across, cultures and their operating environments.

    Re using SF units to assume the lead in providing MiTTs: I have the impression that SF units (both AC & RC) units are decisively engaged in DA & SR missions (a few may be doing FID and SFA-type missions outside the OEF and OIF AOs, but they all are still very busy, in any case).

    I also concur with CavGuy's observation about the mixed benefit of the initial recourse to use a USAR Training Division to set up and conduct the early round of MiTT training at Camp Funston. (As I recall, elements of that same training division later were deployed to Iraq to support BCT of the "new" Iraqi Army, but I don't know what was the track record or final results of that enterprise.)

    Still curious about where and how JCISFA fits into the scheme of things in terms of the content for training MiTTs, as different from its good job in developing concepts and guidance.

    My mind boggles at the recent trend to tack on some augmentees -- without MiTT training (but maybe with some MiTT experience [?]) -- to the staffs of deploying BCTs so they can "advise & assist" the BCT- Augmented (aka "BCT-A") when that unit wedges the parallel "advise & assist" mission with its HN FSF counterpart along with its TOE mission. (By inference -- and realizing that I may be misinformed or under-informed at this point -- the MiTT POI at FPLA will wind down, if not disappear?)

    Has Tom Odom returned to SWJ since his deployment to Iraq a month or so back?

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,

    Stephen H. Franke
    LTC, MI (FAO/SOF/SFA)
    USAR (Retired)
    San Pedro, California


    -------------------- BEGIN PASTE ----------------------

    Sir,

    Great post highlighting the challenges in training and mindset, and the failure of the AC/RC guys to build rapport and advise.

    I think we are saying the same thing, except from my view over the last few years, I have not seen SF actively seeking to shape the GPF advisory mission. We were forced to assign GPF soldiers as advisers in OIF and OEF because there aren't enough specifically-trained and -selected guys in your branch to do so.

    So the Army's first attempt was "Well, let's deploy the USAR Training Divisions as advisers, since it's a training mission." That was a disaster, as these great individuals were prepared to run basic training for US kids, not mentor Iraqi battalions. Then we created Ft. Riley, taking an Armored BDE (!) to run advisory training. Where was SWC? Hell if I know. It would seem a no-brainer that if SF couldn't fill the adviser demand, they should have at least run the training, since it's been the core competency of SF for the last three decades or so. But we didn't for whatever reasons. Same story for recent doctrine.

    In the two years I have worked at CAC as the ops officer for COIN, I have seen little interest from the US Army SF community in GPF efforts to get better at this. I can count on one hand the number of times anyone working for USASOC (excepting COL Maxwell/USASOC G3) has contacted the COIN center here about anything we are doing. Sure, they attend the occasional conference, but mostly, I have received the impression that most in SF just wished we would go away, usually muttering comments about "amateurs". People are doing the best they can with imperfect resources and less background to make this work. As a very-personal observation, SF seems to have schadenfreude over the whole GPF circus with building TTs. My perception is that they haven't been a big part of the solution.

    SOCOM is a different story, though; so is JSOU. They have been actively plugged into what has been developing. Just interesting to me.

    There's a big study coming up about SOF/GPF integration. I hope it produces something. So in a way, the SF have failed to advise/influence the GPF. Kind of reverse of what happened with your AC/RC experience.

    [/QUOTE]


    ---------------------- END PASTE ----------------------
    Last edited by shfranke; 05-21-2009 at 08:18 PM. Reason: correct typo

  6. #46
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Default

    Steve,
    Welcome aboard - good to have you. I thought I try and answer your querry:

    Still curious about where and how JCISFA fits into the scheme of things in terms of the content for training MiTTs, as different from its good job in developing concepts and guidance.
    JCISFA was chartered to instituionalize best practices across DoD and provide operational support (the idea that the two areas would be reinforcing to each other). The latter has taken multiple forms - and has resulted in working experimentation, concepts and implications. The former we provide with a Tactics Branch that works with the various centers to capture lessons learned and best practices and support their dissemination across the force where applicable. We've hosted several advisory working groups and play a role in linking people up. We're in a good place to catch returning advisors given ILE (CGSC) is here at FT LVN, and often are able to make use of them while they await classes. We also coordinate with the various institutions that support SFA education and leader development.

    Hope that helps - you can get to our public homepage here.

    Hope that helps.

    Best, Rob

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