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Thread: Using drones: principles, tactics and results (amended title)

  1. #141
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Default R/C Model Drone Attack Against Capitol Disrupted

    Now that everyone has calmed down some, this just came over the news. A Massachusetts man was arrested for planning to use large scale Radio Controlled models (drones) to attack the Pentagon and possibly the Capitol.
    The man was allegedly radicalized at online jihad website.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44705648...news-security/


    My point was and always has been that just because we(USA,Israel,etc.) use precision targeted killing does not mean that our enemies are going to, it is likely to be just the opposite IMO.

  2. #142
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    Default Drones help Washington win a war of perceptions

    Drones help Washington win a war of perceptions

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  3. #143
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Default Military Drones Hit By Computer Virus


  4. #144
    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9 View Post
    Now that everyone has calmed down some, this just came over the news. A Massachusetts man was arrested for planning to use large scale Radio Controlled models (drones) to attack the Pentagon and possibly the Capitol.
    The man was allegedly radicalized at online jihad website.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44705648...news-security/


    My point was and always has been that just because we(USA,Israel,etc.) use precision targeted killing does not mean that our enemies are going to, it is likely to be just the opposite IMO.
    When a person attacks their own government, they may have been influenced by a variety of sources, but they were most likely "radicalized" by their government. Step one is admitting responsibilities for one's actions. Most addicts, and most governments, never get to step one. Far easier to rationalize such things off on others.
    Robert C. Jones
    Intellectus Supra Scientia
    (Understanding is more important than Knowledge)

    "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)

  5. #145
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob's World View Post
    When a person attacks their own government, they may have been influenced by a variety of sources, but they were most likely "radicalized" by their government. Step one is admitting responsibilities for one's actions. Most addicts, and most governments, never get to step one. Far easier to rationalize such things off on others.
    That is deep Bob...really deep. How many people in the government could even realize that?

  6. #146
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default "Radicalized" by their government?

    Slap,

    Yes Bob is on target and you asked:
    How many people in the government could even realize that?
    Very few I would contend, it would be a rare politician who would admit this:
    ..they were most likely "radicalized" by their government..
    Try this September 2005 article, based on talking to John Denham, a Labour minister who resigned over the Iraq War:http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/al...security.thtml

    There are some civil servants who have advised government here, the most often cited example being the Foreign Office and Home Office advice in 2004 that foreign policy decisions could alienate young Muslims. We know that advice was rejected, yes by Tony Blair and his government.

    As the "smoke" cleared from Northern Ireland more civil servants have talked, with regret, over decisions taken that were counter-productive; I am only aware of local politicians talking in the same terms, such as Geoffrey Donaldson:http://www.jeffreydonaldson.org/
    davidbfpo

  7. #147
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    Default Does U.S. Drone Use Set a New Precedent for War?

    Does U.S. Drone Use Set a New Precedent for War?

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  8. #148
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    Default Drone Wars? Not Quite.

    Drone Wars? Not Quite.

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  9. #149
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    Default Unfounded Drone Fears

    Unfounded Drone Fears

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  10. #150
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    Default The Drone Delusion

    The Drone Delusion

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  11. #151
    Council Member Kiwigrunt's Avatar
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    Not sure this is the best place for it but it does kinda fit.

    Malcolm Gladwell in a 16 min TED talk on military technology and precision and the utility of it.
    Nothing that results in human progress is achieved with unanimous consent. (Christopher Columbus)

    All great truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
    (Arthur Schopenhauer)

    ONWARD

  12. #152
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Kiwi,

    Thanks for the TED link. I thought the last few minutes the most poignant. Gladwell cited a 95% accuracy for drone strikes in NW Pakistan and a ten-fold increase in attacks by those made angrier and angrier. We assume the things we make will solve our problems.
    davidbfpo

  13. #153
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default The American way of bombing?

    An article that looks back to arrive at today:
    The problems with remote-controlled warfare are legion. The human operator ‘is terribly remote from the consequences of his actions; he is likely to be sitting in an air-conditioned trailer, hundreds of miles from the area of battle.’ He evaluates ‘target signatures’ captured by various sensor systems that ‘no more represent human beings than the tokens in a board-type war game.’

    The rise of this new ‘American way of bombing’, as it’s been called, has two particularly serious consequences. First, ‘through its isolation of the military actor from his target, automated warfare diminishes the inhibitions that could formerly be expected on the individual level in the exercise of warfare’. In short, killing is made casual. Secondly, once the risk of combat is transferred to the target, it becomes much easier for the state to go to war. Domestic audiences are disengaged from the violence waged in their name: ‘Remote-controlled warfare reduces the need for the public to confront the consequences of military action abroad.’

    (My emphasis)All familiar stuff, you might think, except that these warnings were not prompted by the appearance of Predators and Reapers in the skies over Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia or Yemen. They appeared in Harper’s Magazine in June 1972, the condensed results of a study of the US air war in Indochina by a group of scholar-activists at Cornell University.1 As they suggest, crucial elements of today’s ‘drone wars’ were assembled during the US bombing of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. There were three of them: drones, real-time visual reconnaissance, and the electronic battlefield.
    Link:http://www.opendemocracy.net/derek-g...way-of-bombing

    This essay is part of Derek Gregory's current research on ‘Killing space: cultural and political histories of bombing’. Next week: Look out for his detailed account of the path that led us from bombing cities, forests and target boxes to putting 'warheads on foreheads' in Pakistan and Afghanistan, 'Lines of Descent'.
    davidbfpo

  14. #154
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Drone attacks: open source research

    Hat tip to the Lowry Institute.

    The Bureau of Investigative Journalism (based at City University in London) is conducting a project where they monitor all reported drone attacks in Pakistan. Based on their documentation of 306 missile strikes from remotely piloted drones in Pakistan (as of November 2011), there are reports of at least 2,349 deaths with, at minimum, 392 civilians killed — including 175 children.
    Link to cited research, which is more than casualties:http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com...ts/drone-data/
    davidbfpo

  15. #155
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Britain's 'most wanted' killed in drone attack'

    I may have missed allegations that UK citizens / residents were the target of a drone strike, so I read this press report with interest 'Britain's 'most wanted' killed in drone attack':http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ne-attack.html

    He was killed in the tribal region of Waziristan alongside Mohammed Azmir Khan, 37. Both men and their brothers were believed to be part of an established network of radicals from Ilford, East London with connections to al-Qaeda. Adam's father confirmed that his son had been killed and a close friend of Khan's family, who did not want to be named, said: "They have taken it very badly - this is the second son who has been killed in a drone strike."
    As Slap has said long ago watch the family members (or similar) as they will be the first to be radicalised and join the violent Jihad.

    He is not the first UK target hit, as the "mastermind" Rashid Rauf was killed in November 2008, his name appears in today's article too and there is some background on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_Rauf
    davidbfpo

  16. #156
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    Default Iranian Video of Alleged U.S. Drone

    Iranian Video of Alleged U.S. Drone

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  17. #157
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    Default Why COIN Principles Don't Fly with Drones

    Why COIN Principles Don't Fly with Drones

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  18. #158
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Brennan on drones

    A short BBC News report:
    President Obama's counter-terrorism adviser has given the most detailed explanation so far of America's use of drones to kill members of al-Qaeda....Brennan has gone further than anyone so far in laying out the rationale for a policy that remains controversial.
    Slightly off-topic, no 100%, but needs a mention:
    Mr Brennan also said that documents found at the compound where Osama Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan last year would go online later this week.
    Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17901400
    davidbfpo

  19. #159
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Default Alabama Police Chief Shocked To Find He Already has Drones

    Link to Gadsden,AL Police Chief's story about drones, includes some video to.


    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ala-...t-owns-drones/

  20. #160
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    There is one result I do not like: All recce units got issued mandatory ballistic plate carriers and helmets, and no one does covert dismounted long range recce ops for multiple days any more. And it´s needed there. Drones are amazing, but they can´t win alone in counterinsurgency campaign, while the rest is carrying their armoured bodies in vehicles and get blown up on IEDs daily.

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