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    Council Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Default Interesting Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmedlap View Post
    But there is a very important job missing there. Essential services, law enforcement, elections, and defense are important. But what about standing up some shell of a government? If there is no government and no law, then what offices are you filling with your elections and what laws are the police enforcing? Without a local government, who is responsible for maintenance and standards of community property? I don't see any guidance for who is in the lead for standing up a government. State Dept maybe? I don't know. I didn't see any mention of it on this thread or the links provided. It would seem like something related to CMO, but that doesn't answer the question either.
    Schmedlap hits on a very important point- one that I've been studying intensely for nearly the last two years. What do we do when there is no functioning government or the populace rejects the current government? There is no silver bullet answer here, and both Iraq and Afghanistan can arguably placed in this category. Unfortunately, we will probably find that we can either do nothing, or we will have to occupy for several generations in the hopes that an American military presence can provide enough security over time to allow the subtle,slow shift towards stability and acceptance of a national government.

    Going back to the earlier discussion on the use of violence and soldier behavior in COIN, I had a Brigade Commander sum up our ethos with the following quote,

    "Treat everyone with dignity and respect, but be prepared to kill them."

    I would submit that actively pursuing, tracking down irreconciliables and killing them IS mutually exclusive to acting like a jackass and behaving ignorantly and disrespectfully to the populace. It is simply a matter of discipline and professionalism. Personally, I found acting politely and intermingling with the populace can be the best form of intelligence collection even if one is forced to use coercive population control measures to provide intitial security.

    Teddy Roosevelt said we should "walk softly and carry a big stick." I think his words are still valid.

    Ken would probably sum it up with METT-TC. There is a time to bring the love, and a time to bring the hate. A commander must discern which COA is valid given the particular environment. Regardless, one can still act in a manner of professionalism and discipline.

    Ultimately, the true battle is between the host nation and its' people. It has nothing to do with us. We can either assist, arbitrate, or get in the way. When we forget that COIN/IW is warfare, then I would submit that is dangerous. I've observed too many units that drive down the road instead of manuevering/bounding b/c they felt all they were doing was conducting "non-lethal" operations. I could never understand why they did not realize the enemy did not care what their mission was.

    CPT Foley- I wrote an essay a while back on the conditions I observed in the DRV back in late 2006 as a small town descended into anarchy. You may want to take a look at it to determine how you would engage this situation in order to stop the violence and provide security. At the time, I determined an indirect or soft approach was not feasible given the total collapse of the government. It speaks more to what Wilf (Mr. Owen) is referring to as to the necessity of the use of violence to secure the populace.

    With all of that said, I've gotta get back to my thesis writing. Please feel free to dissect and refute anything I've said.

    v/r

    Mike
    Last edited by MikeF; 06-01-2009 at 04:30 PM.

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