The Russian Military: Declining or Better?

[Norfolk]

Excellent link, Granite State. Yes, the Russians are not about low-level leadership, unit cohesion, training, tactics, or anything else along those lines in particular. Never have been, and I doubt ever will be in anything like the foreseeable future.

The Russians are above all about the operational level of war. There are few Armies that have ever matched, let alone surpassed the Russians' record of operational successes. The Russians were the first true masters of the Operational Art as they first developed it between the two World Wars. Even the Germans as a whole never really quite mastered Operational Art (although von Manstein himself was perhaps the ablest practitioner of the Operational Art of WWII).

I very much doubt that any attempt by the Russian Army as a whole to "Transform" along more Western-lines (with vaster greater focus upon the tactical-level) would be likely to succeed. Russian society and culture strongly militate against it.

[William F. Owen]

The Russians are above all about the operational level of war. There are few Armies that have ever matched, let alone surpassed the Russians' record of operational successes. The Russians were the first true masters of the Operational Art as they first developed it between the two World Wars. Even the Germans as a whole never really quite mastered Operational Art (although von Manstein himself was perhaps the ablest practitioner of the Operational Art of WWII).

...and they lost vast numbers of men doing it. The Russians may understand the Operational level, but they can only apply it at great cost. - millions of lives to defeat the Nazis.

Unless they have numbers the Russians are, like the Chinese, and North Koreans, mostly sub-capable. Numbers is the only think on their side.

"Talks Star Wars, Act Cave man"

[Rank amateur]

Numbers is the only think on their side.

And nuclear weapons.

[Ken White]

And nuclear weapons.

They just make a bigger bang, no more. Yes, there is radiation -- but there is also high cholestrerol; everybody's gonna die from something...

[kaur]

With its conventional forces Russia will be able to keep and increase its capability to
operate on parts of the Eurasian land mass. It will thus develop a considerable regional
power projection capability.

http://www.foi.se/upload/rapporter/f...capability.pdf

[Jedburgh]

Eurasia Daily Monitor, 17 Jan 08: Moscow Resumes May Parades to Demonstrate Military Strength

Full-scale, Soviet-style military parades – with displays of tanks and other military hardware – will return to Red Square beginning May 9. The decision to resume this public display of military might was reportedly taken at a January 12 meeting of top Russian military leaders. The new Topol-M (SS-27) mobile intercontinental ballistic missiles will also roll past the reviewing stands near the Kremlin wall. The parade is timed to celebrate VE-Day, the end of the European portion of World War II.

The planned high-profile parade will apparently coincide with the inauguration of the next Russian president, presumably Dmitry Medvedev, whom Vladimir Putin has designated as his successor. Medvedev’s election on March 2 is a near certainty, since elections are a mere formality in the framework of Russia's imitation democracy, and the new president must be inaugurated during the first half of May. A public display of Russian armor and nuclear might is clearly a grand way to welcome Medvedev and to commend Putin, who has agreed to serve alongside Medvedev as prime minister. Its easy to imagine them both – Putin and Medvedev – standing side-by-side atop the reviewing stand in front of Vladimir Lenin's tomb, as the tanks and ICBMs roll by and jet fighters scream overhead – symbolizing the restoration of mighty Russia.....

[kaur]

Putin had become convinced during the Second Chechen War that an army based on mass conscription was completely ineffective for the defense of the country. “To effectively respond to terrorists we would need to assemble a force of at least 65,000 men. But of all the military land forces, only 55,000 were in battle-ready condition,” recalled Putin, referring to the level of federal forces in 2006. “The Army has 1.4 million personnel, but none of them can fight. So they sent unseasoned kids into battle.”

It would appear that the number of military service members in contract units hovers somewhere around 50,000.

http://russophobe.blogspot.com/2008/...ion-golts.html

[AdamG]

A Russian nuclear-powered attack submarine armed with long-range cruise missiles operated undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for several weeks and its travel in strategic U.S. waters was only confirmed after it left the region, the Washington Free Beacon has learned.

It is only the second time since 2009 that a Russian attack submarine has patrolled so close to U.S. shores.

http://freebeacon.com/silent-running/

[davidbfpo]

Even if Bill Gertz is the author of the cited article (having left The Washington Times), the language is colourful, almost as if the Akula was at Kings Bay, not in the Gulf of Mexico:

The latest submarine incursion in the Gulf...

Plus a lot of jigsaw pieces all being added together - to support more defence spending. Such as the P-8, which has struggled to be sold:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_P-8_Poseidon

Elsewhere on SWC and an ocean away in the South China Sea freedom of navigation for all is cited as under threat by China. The Russian Akula was just doing that, exercising in international waters; something of course the USN SSK never do of course.

Then Gertz adds:

A second, alarming air incursion took place July 4 on the West Coast when a Bear H strategic bomber flew into U.S. airspace near California and was met by U.S. interceptor jets.

Similar flights by Bear bombers have been reported in the UK, but when examined closely the 'airspace' was not territorial airspace, but the UK air defence and civil aviation area - a very different legal concept, which has no standing in international law.

Given Gertz's record for obtaining help from within officialdom, one can happily speculate whose best interests are served by this unconfirmed report.

[AdamG]

Given Gertz's record for obtaining help from within officialdom, one can happily speculate whose best interests are served by this unconfirmed report.

Yeah, and?

Gertz paints a pretty plain picture.

The submarine patrol also exposed what U.S. officials said were deficiencies in U.S. anti-submarine warfare capabilities—forces that are facing cuts under the Obama administration’s plan to reduce defense spending by $487 billion over the next 10 years.

Perhaps Gertz is stumping for the ASW funding proponents, but it's not mutually exclusive to point out 1) that the Russians are getting back into the habit of flexing their muscles, and 2) a Russian sub sat on our doorstep twiddling it's thumbs for a month while 3) the USN leadership is engaged in sexual pattycakes and generally poor seamanship.

[Fuchs]

deficiencies in U.S. anti-submarine warfare capabilities

Ooooold story.

Stories about ASW deficiencies are available in abundance and it affects all classic forces.

Aerial ASW is a near-impotent museum piece from WW2 that does no more than to force the hostile subs to be cautious.

Classic surface ASW with passive sonar (towed or hull mounted doesn't matter) are in peril against old SSNs and at the same time totally useless targets in face of a modern hostile SSK.

Surface ASW is potent with low frequency active sonars, but the emitters should be detached from major surface units if not even dispersed. Survival of surface units still depends on being silent, that is "slow" unless they sail; cavitation begins with the relatively small surface ship screws already at speeds well below what classic tea clippers were able to achieve.
Most if not all "modern"(-time) navies insist on the classic impressive warship basis instead of accepting the need for many small units. It's a bit reminiscent of 10+ battleship WW2 navies being forced to build 500+ sub hunters during wartime.

SSNs are fine at defeating obsolete loud other SSNs, but fail regularly even at the detection of modern hostile SSKs.

Modern SSKs are less prone to be found by other modern SSKs, but this works both ways. They're also often too slow to intercept a 15 kts cruising convoy and certainly too slow to escort it.

[Norfolk]

...and they lost vast numbers of men doing it. The Russians may understand the Operational level, but they can only apply it at great cost. - millions of lives to defeat the Nazis.

Unless they have numbers the Russians are, like the Chinese, and North Koreans, mostly sub-capable. Numbers is the only think on their side.

"Talks Star Wars, Act Cave man"

Too true Wilf, and your ending quote pretty much sums up the essence of Russian Military Theory and Practice.