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Thread: The UK in Afghanistan

  1. #741
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    Massive drugs seizure in Helmand by Afghan and UK forces

    More than 700 kilograms of dry opium has been seized by Afghan forces working alongside British troops in Helmand province.


    ...then from this article

    "I think after the poppy harvests, unfortunately, the young males around here will take arms and we'll see an increase in the kinetic activity,..."
    ...the insanity continues.

  2. #742
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    HMG will rarely acknowledge that seizures etc of Helmand-produced heroin could have an impact in the UK. In fact it is one reason supporting staying pit that may resonate widely with the public IMHO.

    We know local policy is not to affect the farmers, so heroin stocks found are not always destroyed or seized (as per a post last year IIRC).

    Now the best question. Will the 700 kgs seized still be intact, pending any trial, in a week or a month? If no trial occurs and destruction is next, when? Note this seizure was by the Afghans.
    davidbfpo

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    David, it all comes out in the fullness of time. I note this with interest.

    So the politicians though about it and the military kicked it into touch. Now that is bad news.

    I wonder what the number of married soldiers is in the average infantry company these days. I count 7 in my sub-unit circa 1979. Maybe a different era but on those sort of numbers that would place any such argument purely on the basis of a few married officers and senior NCOs.

    As to the second point. Training together as a brigade is only important if the brigade fights as a formation on the ground and not in section or platoon or even company strength. A truly bogus argument. Important for whom? The brigadier?

    Good article David, thanks. Probably 90% of my stated position on the issues.
    David initially posted the link to the article - Operation amnesia

    Just to keep track of opinion and comment it was immediately followed by the John Rentoul blog entry - Learn-and-Forget in Afghanistan which was mainly a cut and paste of what he thought were the main points of Matt Cavanagh's article but does introduce comment from Hansard of MP Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab).

    McShane yet another politician without time in any service tries to make his point by using cute soundbites (like modified Siegfried Sassoon poetry) and falls short.

    Two comments he made:

    "It is time to assert the principle that war is too important a matter to be left to generals."

    and

    "That is why we need to say clearly to the generals, "Your strategy is wrong." We need to move from a policy of confrontation to one of containment. Our strategy must absolutely be based on finding a political solution."
    The first comment is irritating to me as inept generals open the door for this kind of comment and invite a Keystone Cops show like we have seen with the recent OBL hit for all those involved other than the special forces team themselves. Politicians should stick to the Grand Strategy and leave the military strategy and the tactics to the generals and the soldiers down the line. For this to work there must be competent generals... sadly there is much doubt in this regard (and not just within the British military).

    John Rentoul does follow this up a month later with another blog entry -
    Military “Failure” in Helmand and Basra in which he quotes one Gavin Bailey from Dundee University who wants to include the Department for International Development, the Foreign Office and the Afghan government in the finger pointing as part of the search for the culprit.

    Bailey seems to support short tours (now being one of an ever dwindling group who do) but does get it correct when he states:

    What really counts is progress towards civil governance and establishing effective Afghan institutions. And that’s a huge problem.
    But the gem is the link to another article of Anthony King - A six-month command is not the way to beat the Taliban who once again tackles the issue of "short tours" but sadly he remains still focussed on continuity at brigade headquarters level and fails address the benefits that would accrue if continuity was assured at all levels of the Herrick deployment.
    Last edited by JMA; 05-18-2011 at 02:58 PM.

  4. #744
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    David Cameron rebukes Armed Forces chiefs
    David Cameron has rebuked the heads of the Armed Forces on defence cuts, saying they “always want more”.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...es-chiefs.html
    Makes it difficult to perform.

    Ordering troops to war as a part of political oneupmanship and then leaving the troops to blunder their way on sheer guts and wits and no backup!!

    It is a sad state to be in and I realise their predicament having been in such circumstances.

    Reminds one of Tennyson - Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die: Into the valley of Death
    Rode the six hundred..

    Could a bit of military service have taught politicians something more to life than political survivability?

    One may visit the British Army unofficial forum ARRSE to realise what the British troopers feel about everything they are up against.
    http://www.arrse.co.uk/afghanistan-144

    One should, however, be ready for the British loopy humour, tongue in cheek comments and some downright uncharitable thoughts.


    Special forces commando took on Taliban single-handedly

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-handedly.html
    It does indicate that all is still working out because of the single-minded devotion to duty and the cause, notwithstanding the defence cut in the US and UK!
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 05-26-2011 at 07:55 AM.

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    Default A "kiss and tell" from an ex-ambassador...

    ... this guy has a point though.

    Sherard Cowper-Coles: 'The nightly slaughter of the Taliban is profoundly wrong'

    We have been at war in Afghanistan for nearly 10 years. British troops have been fighting and dying in Helmand province since 2006. At every step along this tragic journey, we were assured by government and military officials that we were making progress, we had the right plan, and that we were winning. We didn't and we weren't, but that did not stop the relentless "happy talk" from the bearers of the official line.

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    Default I prefer the happy Lord T,

    Thusly,

    I.

    The charge of the gallant three hundred, the Heavy Brigade!
    Down the hill, down the hill, thousands of Russians,
    Thousands of horsemen, drew to the valley–and stay’d;
    For Scarlett and Scarlett’s three hundred were riding by
    When the points of the Russian lances arose in the sky;
    And he call’d, ‘Left wheel into line!’ and they wheel’d and obey’d.
    Then he look’d at the host that had halted he knew not why,
    And he turn’d half round, and he bade his trumpeter sound
    To the charge, and he rode on ahead, as he waved his blade
    To the gallant three hundred whose glory will never die–
    ‘Follow,’ and up the hill, up the hill, up the hill,
    Follow’d the Heavy Brigade.
    .....
    III.
    .....
    O, mad for the charge and the battle were we,
    When our own good redcoats sank from sight,
    Like drops of blood in a dark-gray sea,
    And we turn’d to each other, whispering, all dismay’d,
    ‘Lost are the gallant three hundred of Scarlett’s Brigade!’

    IV.

    ‘Lost one and all’ were the words
    Mutter’d in our dismay;
    But they rode like victors and lords
    Thro’ the forest of lances and swords
    In the heart of the Russian hordes,
    They rode, or they stood at bay–
    Struck with the sword-hand and slew,
    Down with the bridle-hand drew
    The foe from the saddle and threw
    Underfoot there in the fray–
    Ranged like a storm or stood like a rock
    In the wave of a stormy day;
    Till suddenly shock upon shock
    Stagger’d the mass from without,
    Drove it in wild disarray,
    For our men gallopt up with a cheer and a shout,
    And the foeman surged, and waver’d, and reel’d
    Up the hill, up the hill, up the hill, out of the field,
    And over the brow and away.

    V.

    Glory to each and to all, and the charge that they made!
    Glory to all the three hundred, and all the Brigade!
    Of course, the 300 were Scots-Irish (Greys & Inniskillens).

    My serious point is: Do it right or don't do it at all.

    My take (18 months ago) was that the political effort showed no real progress - the problem was political and not military. My posts (from 2009), One hell of a mission (IMO); Armchair view from a civilian standpoint ....; Demographic line strategy. I was not cheerful then and am not cheerful now - despite the best efforts from some very fine people in the interim. The 2005 Executive to Executive Joint Strategic Partnership with the Karzai government (which was re-affirmed in 2008) is wishful thinking unless one is willing to think in terms of a generation or two, and budget ~ $100 billion per annum to the effort.

    Regards

    Mike
    Last edited by jmm99; 05-26-2011 at 08:21 PM. Reason: add links

  7. #747
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    Default A "kiss and tell" from an ex-ambassador...

    JMA,

    All to often ambassadors say 'X' after retirement, to be fair to him I expect he has been saying similar for awhile - as the article states - and this story is part of the book publicity launch.

    The real question for the UK is: why has official policy apparently ignored his experienced knowledge and professional advice?
    davidbfpo

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    JMA,

    All to often ambassadors say 'X' after retirement, to be fair to him I expect he has been saying similar for awhile - as the article states - and this story is part of the book publicity launch.

    The real question for the UK is: why has official policy apparently ignored his experienced knowledge and professional advice?
    Maybe instead of spending all his time looking over the shoulder of the military he should have been looking in all the right places?

    $1bn fraud at Kabul Bank puts UK's Afghan pull-out in peril

    A secret US government report into the debacle "indicates that insiders at Kabul Bank used fraudulent loans to misappropriate $850m (£525m), representing 94 per cent of outstanding loans".
    ... I guess the special forces have a bunch of new legitimate targets to add to their HVT list.

  9. #749
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    Default Bank fraud - another nail in the coffin?

    This bank collapse was referred to a few months ago and if the USG have a secret report as JMA cited, somehow I doubt if it will be published. IIRC there was reporting that the West would be asked to bail out the bank!

    Ah for the simple solution! No more cash for the banks and robust action to get the monies back, which undoubtedly will be invested outside Afghanistan.

    I do wonder how Capitol Hill reacts to such news.
    davidbfpo

  10. #750
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    Default Books to consider

    Three book reviews on Afghanistan, two primarily concerned with the UK's role:http://www.spectator.co.uk/books/693...-the-war.thtml

    IIRC Toby Harndens' book 'Dead Men Risen:The Welsh Guards and the real story of Britain's war in Afghanistan' is commended:
    Dead Men Risen is a serious work, far removed from the blood-and-thrills of the Bravo Two Zero school of military literary campaigning. Such books may grip but they do not engage. Harden’s does both.
    A columnist taking a wider view comments that:
    Toby Harnden’s unputdownable Dead Men Risen about the Welsh Guards’ 2009 disastrous tour of Helmand. This was when they lost in action a CO (Rupert Thorneloe), a company commander (Sean Birchall) and a platoon commander (Mark Evison): the first battalion to suffer such attrition since the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers during the Korean war......No one who has read Harnden’s book could fail to feel angry and bitter about the hopelessness of the task facing our troops in Afghanistan.
    Which ends with a wider point, pithy IMHO and cites the governor of Texas:
    ..He pointed out, quite rightly, that the world is never a better, safer place than when the United States is acting as its police enforcer. But the second point he made was more important. The US (and its allies) can only afford to act as global policeman when its economy is on a sound footing. It’s not — so until it is, it can’t. None of us can.
    Link:http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnist...let-them.thtml
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 05-29-2011 at 12:20 PM.
    davidbfpo

  11. #751
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    Default Afghanistan withdrawal: no significant pull out, says senior British general

    The Deputy ISAF Commander has made a public comment:
    Lt Gen Bucknall, the deputy head of Nato's Afghan mission, said alliance forces must remain unchanged until autumn 2012 to consolidate gains made since US reinforcements came last year.

    "The coalition has had a good winter," he said. "We have got to hold on to what we have gained and hold that over this fighting season. What we are doing is reaping the benefits of having the resources in place to match the strategy we have always had. Many of those resources only hit the ground in autumn 2010. We need, in broadest terms, that set of resources in place for two winters and two fighting seasons, which would mean we are talking about autumn 2012. This is not the time to send conflicting signals on commitment to the campaign."
    Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...h-general.html

    How the general reconciles his views with the government's clear commitment to reduce troop levels, the political-military situation in Afghanistan (since 2001), let alone Helmand Province (UK role since 2006) and overwhelming public opposition to our commitment there eludes me.
    davidbfpo

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    Default A "kiss and tell" from an ex-ambassador...Part 2

    Another review of the book by Sir Sherard Cowper-Coles 'Cables from Kabul':http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...ghanistan.html
    davidbfpo

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    Another review of the book by Sir Sherard Cowper-Coles 'Cables from Kabul':http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...ghanistan.html
    Well that certainly made me reconsider joining the Foreign Office

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDB View Post
    Well that certainly made me reconsider joining the Foreign Office
    ... and for that you should be eternally grateful. Your honour and integrity are too valuable than to be squandered on the alter of duplicitous and perfidious diplomacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    ... and for that you should be eternally grateful. Your honour and integrity are too valuable than to be squandered on the alter of duplicitous and perfidious diplomacy.
    Maybe I'm sufftering from battered wife syndrome and just want to change him, I meant the foreign office. What about the Home Office then?

  16. #756
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    Default Carrer options

    TDB wrote:
    What about the Home Office then?
    John Reid was the UK Secretary of State for Defence who took the decision to deploy UK forces to Helmand Province, accompanied by a public statement IIRC similar to "The troops will assist development and not fire a shot". So I am reluctant to cite him, but in answer to your question.

    When John Reid was Home Secretary he announced one of his agencies, the UK Border Agency was 'Not fit for purpose'; well nor is the Home Office IMHO and best kept away from.

    Try DFID instead, that's awash with taxpayers money, has an increasing budget, needs young staff to work overseas and may offer adventure too.
    davidbfpo

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    TDB wrote:

    John Reid was the UK Secretary of State for Defence who took the decision to deploy UK forces to Helmand Province, accompanied by a public statement IIRC similar to "The troops will assist development and not fire a shot". So I am reluctant to cite him, but in answer to your question.

    When John Reid was Home Secretary he announced one of his agencies, the UK Border Agency was 'Not fit for purpose'; well nor is the Home Office IMHO and best kept away from.

    Try DFID instead, that's awash with taxpayers money, has an increasing budget, needs young staff to work overseas and may offer adventure too.
    I've heard as much from a civil service fast streamer, it's the reason the fast stream was set up in the first place, to get out the people who had gotten used to a sedentary way of working. I can imagine DfID being equally frustrating. Maybe the Cabinet Office, though saying that anything i'd say would fall on deaf ears. Well all my future career plans seem to have been undone in a single thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDB View Post
    I've heard as much from a civil service fast streamer, it's the reason the fast stream was set up in the first place, to get out the people who had gotten used to a sedentary way of working. I can imagine DfID being equally frustrating. Maybe the Cabinet Office, though saying that anything i'd say would fall on deaf ears. Well all my future career plans seem to have been undone in a single thread.
    I strongly suggest that you report to ITC Catterick for a quick 26 week infantry soldiers course (time flies when you are having fun). It will be a pretty good character building experience while you decide which branch of government you wish to grace with your presence
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-03-2011 at 09:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    I strongly suggest that you report to ITC Catterick for a quick 26 week infantry soldiers course (time flies when you are having fun). It will be a pretty good character building experience while you decide which branch of government you wish to grace with your presence
    Fantastic idea, what would I do without you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDB View Post
    Fantastic idea, what would I do without you!
    You like? Then why not go the whole hog and go for Sandhurst?


    PS: don't worry I'm not a commission based recruiting officer

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