You have knowledge others lack, and thus higher confidence. No argument - I think that's a fine point with which to close the discussion.
You have knowledge others lack, and thus higher confidence. No argument - I think that's a fine point with which to close the discussion.
...and hope it is "positive". I wouldn't presume to declare a discussion closed. But the leaflets represent the tip of an iceberg of effort that I personally haven't seen.
I'm confident enough that I don't know enough to discuss because I have been peripherally involved in similar efforts. Sometimes things don't make sense in isolation - even (or especially) when compared to other knowns. I concur with George re: unknowns.
"It's something COL Steele would've done."
Extremely presumptive on many levels and unnecessary to this discussion.
I don't recall anyone forcing you to jump into this thread, Greyhawk. If you don't like the discussion--or the idea that I brought this topic up--you're certainly free to not participate. But I think it would be better if, rather than you telling me what I've said is "unnecessary" and that I'm on "a path best left untraveled," you simply rebutted my argument about the leaflets with either facts or your own opinions based on personal experience.
I made a comment that compared today's seemingly heavy-handed tactics in two Afghan villages with the known heavy-handed tactics of a man whose "leadership" not only tarnished the reputation of the unit with which I served in both Afghanistan and Iraq, but also set back efforts in working with the Iraqi populace. If you think that's presumptive of me, that's fine. Just explain why. . .instead of making three comments to suggest what I should or shouldn't be talking about.
Since the capture of the US soldier and some of what has happened since is in the public domain I can see no reason why SWC cannot comment. Yes 'unknowns' exist and we have an abundance of experience and outlooks here; alongside - in reserve - robust moderation when required.
Returning to the leaflet drop are they the "tip of the iceberg" or a sign of desperation? Only those closer in will know; we can comment, OK some may call that speculation.
davidbfpo
I can only speak for myself, but that does not seem like a wise comparison at this time. We simply don't know the rationale behind this decision. When this episode is over and we have more information available, then we can determine whether or not this was too heavy-handed. "Heavy" is relative to the situation. I have endured the snail-like pace of developing PSYOP products. Most requests, in my experience, were turned down or were so watered down as to be pointless because of some overly cautious TA analysis.
Drawing a comparison to Steele is to suggest recklessness or incompetence. It surprises me that products like this were fielded. But having some familiarity with how the development process works, I am very hesitant to assume that this was just some reckless or poorly thought-out decision. Of course, this is the Army, so there is always the possibility that your hunch is correct. But it seems a bit early and information a bit scarce to start making such comparisons.
But aside from that narrow point, discussion is good. I concur with david - it's already in the public domain.
I was trying to be brief in hopes of not being misunderstood, and I failed quite completely. Schmedlap's longer, thoughtful response captures what I was attempting to say. (If he gleaned any of that from what I said, then perhaps I'm only a partial failure.)
I was entirely wrong to say anything approaching "close the discussion". That was ill considered on my part. I further failed at attempting to fully clarify that in a follow up comment - bad on me again. Apologies to all in that regard.
Brandon: I'm also saying that based on all we know, you're right.
We now need VOA TV and radio broadcasts "advertsing" to return for a reward the kidnapped PFC currently being held hostage.
All broadcasts need to be in the native dialects common on both sides of the Durland Line. Ads offering rewards and quoting the Qu'ran about peace and about helping other "People of the Book", ie, as we are all literally descendants of Abraham [as described both in our Holy Bible and in the Qu'ran] I believe this would work better than leaflets which many native illiterates cannot read, even though they can look at a cheap picture on a leaflet.
We are dealing here with terrorist "rug merchants" treating a soldier as a trading property of value.
Kidnapped, he apparently has been sold by a lower level Taliban outfit to a higher level Taliban outfit who want to now use him as a bargaining chip to gain release of other Taliban prisoners and on the side also want money, ie, to be "paid off."
Taliban alleged remarks for the whole war to stop over one PFC's kidnapping are off the wall and most likely not the result these rug merchants realistically hope for...which is the release of many Taliban prisoners and being literally paid off in money, too.
The less said about this whole fiasco by the media the better as I have said before. Right now the Talaiban are getting millions of dollars worth of free public relations, albeit negative public relations...the old political addage here in the South regarding politicians, which the Taliban are a sort of, is "spell my name in your newspaper correctly no matter what you say about me!"
A "hostage" is not a prisoner of war.
Last edited by George L. Singleton; 07-19-2009 at 10:38 PM.
From:http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,1106216.storyThe last time an American service member went missing in Afghanistan was in June, when Pfc. Bowe R. Bergdahl was captured after straying from a US base near the eastern border with Pakistan. On July 18, Taliban insurgents released a video of the 23-year-old soldier from Idaho. Bergdahl has not been found.
Let's hope he has not been forgotten and this is an appropriate update as Rememberance Sunday is tomorrow (US equivalent: Veterans Day?).
davidbfpo
Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-07-2009 at 01:06 PM.
Here is a link to NYT reporter David Rohde's account of his 7 month captivity in the hands of the Taliban. I don't know if it has been posted on SWJ before but it might be relevant to this discussion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/wo...18hostage.html
Last edited by carl; 11-07-2009 at 10:02 PM. Reason: typo
"We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene
= the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, 1918, when the guns fell silent on the Western Front in the War to End All Wars. Short Wiki.
Best
Mike
A short video clip of the prisoner in uniform: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8430431.stm
Surprisingly short summary article; cannot fault the timing for Info Warfare.
davidbfpo
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