The origins of war

[jenniferro10]

"We all know men are violent and women helpless in these situations, right?"

Okay - I'll take that bait.

No bait. It was only a "okay, let's say this is absolutely true, if so, then..." kind of statement.

marct- We'll keep you

So much good reading to be done here...but I distinctly remember being told, more than once, that there were more women than men in our early family groups (you know, "cave man days"...I love how anthropologists wince when you say that!).

[marct]

So much good reading to be done here...but I distinctly remember being told, more than once, that there were more women than men in our early family groups (you know, "cave man days"...I love how anthropologists wince when you say that!).

All I can say is



Honestly, you may have been told that, but the latest research I've seen (about 8 years old) says different.

[jmm99]

an interesting article, The Mysterious Downfall of the Neandertals, which concludes:

As for the last known Neandertals, the ones who lived in Gibraltar’s seaside caves some 28,000 years ago, Finlayson is certain that they did not spend their days competing with moderns, because moderns seem not to have settled there until thousands of years after the Neandertals were gone. The rest of their story, however, remains to be discovered.

So, the demise of this this particular group of Neanderthals cannot be placed at Cro-Magnon feet.

Two 2009 reports dealing with the Neanderthal genome suggest that the capacity for speech goes back to before the Neanderthal-Modern Human split in their "family tree" - here and here:

Analysis of the genome reveals that humans and Neandertals share genetic roots stretching back at least 830,000 years. Neandertals, the species Homo neanderthalensis, were humans’ closest relatives, appearing about 300,000 years ago and living in Europe and parts of Asia until going extinct about 30,000 years ago.

Anatomically modern humans, the species known as Homo sapiens, first appeared in Africa about 250,000 to 200,000 years ago.

and

Talk like a Neandertal

Neandertals may have had the genetic gift for gab, new research shows.

Analyses of the Neandertal genome reveals that the extinct human relatives had the same version of a gene linked to speech as humans do, says Svante Pääbo of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany. Mutations that reduce activity of the gene, called FOXP2, also disable speech in humans.

Humans have a version of FOXP2 that differs by two amino acids from the chimpanzee version of the gene. Neandertals share the version of the gene found in humans, Pääbo reported at the human genetics meeting.

Many other genes may be required for speech but, in humans at least, no other genes have shown such a dramatic effect. The result could mean that Neandertals could speak, Pääbo says.

“From what little we know, there’s no reason they couldn’t talk,” he says.

I'll pass on opposite sex interactions - although it is mentioned in the articles.

Regards to all from the resident biochemist.

[Backwards Observer]

Never having served in the military or practiced anthropology, my interpretation may be well far of the mark, but this is what I find interesting about the Levant rock-painting of neolithic warfare image in JMM's post (#8).

It seems to depict a sweep with flank security (the four-man group), against an opponent skilled at ambush and concealment (the three-man group). The ambushing group also appears to understand fire discipline, suggested by the position of the sweeping group's point element squarely within the kill-zone. The ambush also seems to be roughly L or U-shaped.

The sweeping group's flank elements appear to be maintaining intervals in relation to the main body, and the point element is leading by a short distance. The sweeping group also suggests a proficiency in stealthy movement, as the uppermost flanker is opening fire on the ambushing group without having been noticed.

In contrast to other rock-paintings depicting battles where larger groups are gathered in loose order, the figures in this particular image seem cognizant of disciplined and organized small unit tactics, possibly a logical extension of their hunting skills.

I guess it could also show a hammer and anvil maneuver gone terribly wrong, either way it's an interesting picture. Thanks for posting it.

Related:

Assessing Rank and warfare-strategy in prehistoric hunter-gatherer society

Zenpundit: The First Genocide?

[jmm99]

The Zenpundit link establishes that violence goes back a long ways (there ca. 50K years ago). The archaeology article, "Assessing rank and warfare-strategy in prehistoric hunter-gatherer society", takes us into the evidence for organized violence between distinct groups (armed conflict or war).

The picture of the 4 vs 3 archers will be viewed differently as to the tactics being employed. To me, it looks like a loose 1 up, 2 back attack (the left group) on a more concentrated 2 up, 1 back defense (the right group), with the added element of a flank attack by the left group. In any event, the guy forward in the left group is the "tip of the spear" (my "mind title" for the pic).

That is really self-selection to some extent because (to me) the pic resembles the attack by a US battalion in WWII, which was the tip of the spear for 30ID and 2AD in cracking a pillbox concentration and thereby the Siegfried Line, which is diagrammed here. Instead of individuals, there were 3 rifle companies (A, B, C) and a heavy weapons company (D) which was primarily in support of A & C. C was the tip of the spear and got clobbered.

So, my thought was that combat hasn't changed much since the Neolithic. How seriously we should take all of this Neolithic stuff is another question.

[Backwards Observer]

That is really self-selection to some extent

I had the same thought about my take on it. I've seen the image a couple times before and thought, primitive warfare...yup. Then it showed up on this thread and also in the Azar Gat book. Looking at it again, there suddenly seemed to be a narrative behind it. Strangely, or perhaps predictably, the narrative appeared to be formed through the prism of my readings on warfare, mainly Vietnam as opposed to WW2. So as far as a painting of stick-figures from thousands of years ago, did I gain an insight into its meaning or unconsciously manage to fit into my perceptual framework...in this case, probably the latter.

[jmm99]

in analyzing tactics, are operating beyond our SWC paygrade.