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    Council Member rborum's Avatar
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    Default Civilian Casualties, Religion, and COIN Operations

    Too Soft, Too Hard, or "Just Right"?

    Ralph Peters certainly has a way with words. Many SWJ-ers have probably read his recent indictment of US operations in Afghanistan (and elsewhere). He argues that we are walking on eggshells - tactically and strategically - because we worry too much about offending the adversary's religion and killing civilians and that our moral weakness is causing us to lose the war. Peters says:

    As our enemies’ view of what is permissible in war expands apocalyptically, our self-limiting definitions of allowable targets and acceptable casualties—hostile, civilian and our own—continue to narrow fatefully. Our enemies cannot defeat us in direct confrontations, but we appear determined to defeat ourselves.



    Peters' analysis - consistent with arguments he has made a number of times before - raises two questions about which I would welcome the thoughtful input and feedback of SWCouncil Members (and other readers).

    The first question is to what extent - and why - do civilian casualties matter in COIN/IW operations? (Is this different when the counterinsurgent is a third-party? Different than in conventional wars?)

    On one hand we have the view that high-power kinetic activity is necessary to "win" and that winning trumps all other mission objectives. The "butcher's bill" philosophy is that once a nation has decided to go to war, it should "go hard or go home." Peters' observes, for example, that:

    The paradox is that our humane approach to warfare results in unnecessary bloodshed. Had we been ruthless in the use of our overwhelming power in the early days of conflict in both Afghanistan and Iraq, the ultimate human toll—on all sides—would have been far lower. In warfare of every kind, there is an immutable law: If you are unwilling to pay the butcher’s bill up front, you will pay it with compound interest in the end. Iraq was not hard; we made it so.


    On the other hand, we have the view that civilian casualties actually weaken our strategic objectives and amplify battlespace friction. Some have argued that the rising number of civil causalities in Afghanistan is a major cause of the declining Afghan support for the ISAF. Andrew Exum, a member of GEN McChrystal's advisory team, argues that humanitarian considerations notwithstanding, civilians casualties impede the military mission - at least in Afghanistan:

    The reason we do not drop compounds in Afghanistan has more to do with operational considerations than it does with some high-minded moral code or the laws of land warfare. Opponents of COIN doctrine who claim the U.S. Army has gone "soft" would best remember that. If dropping compounds helped us to advance the ball down the field in terms of mission success, we might be more tolerant of civilian casualties and "collateral damage." But the evidence suggests that killing civilians and destroying their property actually harms the mission more than it helps.



    The second question is to what extent - and how - our enemy's religion, in this case Islam, is or should be a focus of our war effort (kinetic and nonkinetic)?


    One point of view is that Islam itself poses an ideological, existential threat (even if its adherents do not) to democracy and to freedom. The arguments - such as thse made in Robert Spencer's book "stealth Jihad" suggest that core Islamic texts and teachings mandate subjugation of and warfare against non-Muslims (unbelievers), and advocate for Sharia law be globally imposed as the only legitimate source of social and political authority. Accordingly, they argue, there is no such thing as a “moderate Muslim.”

    Proponents of this position acknowledge than many Muslims – particularly American Muslims – do not adhere to those tenets in practice, but maintain that these anti-Democratic principles are precisely what the doctrine commands. They see no distinction between the separatist, anti-Democratic, violence-inciting doctrine of those labeled as “violent extremists” or Islamists and the core doctrine of Islam. They believe that their arguments cannot be openly discussed without their being accused of bigotry and labeled as Islamophobes, and that their position is easily dismissed by most of the American public because others are uninformed about Islamic doctrine. Peters, for example, states starkly:


    The problem is religion. Our Islamist enemies are inspired by it, while we are terrified even to talk about it. We are in the unique position of denying that our enemies know what they themselves are up to. They insist, publicly, that their goal is our destruction (or, in their mildest moods, our conversion) in their god’s name. We contort ourselves to insist that their religious rhetoric is all a sham, that they are merely cynics exploiting the superstitions of the masses. Setting aside the point that a devout believer can behave cynically in his mundane actions, our phony, one-dimensional analysis of al-Qaeda and its ilk has precious little to do with the nature of our enemies —which we are desperate to deny—and everything to do with us.


    A contrasting view - as both Presidents Bush and Obama have asserted - is that the U.S. is not (and presumably should not be) at war with Islam or with Muslims generally. The explanation for this position is that Islam is a religion, but that Islamism (or some other variant on this ideological term), refers not to a religion, but to a radical political ideology driven by a strong anti-Western and anti-democratic sentiment. The argument is that militant leaders – particularly since the late 1980s – have been able to use Islam (the religion) very effectively as a platform or vehicle to transport and deliver this extremist ideology. As evidence of this distinction, they point to the fact that most adherents of the religion do not subscribe to the violent ideology, and that many proponents of the militant ideology are not particularly religious” or pious.

    I appreciate you considering these questions and look forward to learning from your insights and responses. This is the first substantive thread I have started here, so please forgive any clumsiness in protocol - and let me know if this question/discussion would be better placed elsewhere.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 07-24-2009 at 10:14 PM.

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    Council Member IntelTrooper's Avatar
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    My attention span is too short so I kind of just scanned your post. We are walking on eggshells. We do try to respect the unique Afghan incarnation of Islam. These are not bad things. We could go in like a juggernaut and piss more people off. It's been tried in the past, though, and didn't work out too well for those conducting the operation.
    "The status quo is not sustainable. All of DoD needs to be placed in a large bag and thoroughly shaken. Bureaucracy and micromanagement kill."
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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Three themes

    I am sure your questions have appeared before, albeit within different threads, mainly in the Afghan context recently on civilian casualties and the campaign. Religion I'm not so sure, as Inteltrooper says 'eggshells'. Have you checked through RFI and used the advanced search option?

    davidbfpo

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    Council Member rborum's Avatar
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    davidbfpo - I will search further. Perhaps my search strategy is deficient. As I noted in my reply to IntelTrooper, I am trying to understand the source of the divergence of opinion. The issue where religion/Islam fits in all this is more often talked around than addressed directly. People assert positions, but I have not seen much discussion of why/whether the role of Islam matters to strategy or operations, nor have I seen thoughtful attempts to develop a rapproachment or resolve the debate. That's why I was bringing the issue to the real expert on this forum. Thanks for engaging.

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    Council Member rborum's Avatar
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    IntelTrooper-Sorry for the long post. I get your point. May I take the inquiry just another step? What I am trying to better understand is why there is this divergence of opinion on a basic tenet of strategy. You point out that going in like a juggernaut has been tried before and didn't work for the counterinsurgents. Yet, there are still those saying we should, and that the reason we are losing and are destined to lose is because we didn't/don't. Do people disagree on this history (would they say the juggernaut strategy DID work for the counterinsurgent)? Or is this difference of opinion simply driven by personal worldviews and ideologies of the observers?
    Last edited by rborum; 07-25-2009 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Added IntelTrooper

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    Council Member IntelTrooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rborum View Post
    Yet, there are still those saying we should, and that the reason we are losing and are destined to lose is because we didn't/don't. Do people disagree on this history (would they say the juggernaut strategy DID work for the counterinsurgent)? Or is this difference of opinion simply driven by personal worldviews and ideologies of the observers?
    Sure, people may say that. I would venture that the people crying for less cultural/religious sensitivity and avoidance of civilian casualties have spent little to no time in the country and don't have responsibility for troops or the success of any effort there.

    I sincerely doubt that anyone would argue that the particular operation I have in mind was a success, since I have the Soviets in mind.
    "The status quo is not sustainable. All of DoD needs to be placed in a large bag and thoroughly shaken. Bureaucracy and micromanagement kill."
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    "With a plan this complex, nothing can go wrong." -- Schmedlap

    "We are unlikely to usefully replicate the insights those unencumbered by a military staff college education might actually have." -- William F. Owen

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    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rborum View Post
    Too Soft, Too Hard, or "Just Right"?

    Ralph Peters certainly has a way with words. Many SWJ-ers have probably read his recent indictment of US operations in Afghanistan (and elsewhere). He argues that we are walking on eggshells - tactically and strategically - because we worry too much about offending the adversary's religion and killing civilians and that our moral weakness is causing us to lose the war. Peters says:

    As our enemies’ view of what is permissible in war expands apocalyptically, our self-limiting definitions of allowable targets and acceptable casualties—hostile, civilian and our own—continue to narrow fatefully. Our enemies cannot defeat us in direct confrontations, but we appear determined to defeat ourselves.



    Peters' analysis - consistent with arguments he has made a number of times before - raises two questions about which I would welcome the thoughtful input and feedback of SWCouncil Members (and other readers)...

    I appreciate you considering these questions and look forward to learning from your insights and responses. This is the first substantive thread I have started here, so please forgive any clumsiness in protocol - and let me know if this question/discussion would be better placed elsewhere.
    First of all we have discussed these things in great detail, a fact that does not necessarily lessen the value of looking at them again.

    But I will also say that Ralph Peter's use of language is not the same as analysis. He is given to seeking base instinct over thought and he writes and speaks to that effect.

    Tom

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    Council Member Ron Humphrey's Avatar
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    Post There have been quite a few

    Threads where this type of thing has come up so the search will help.

    That said it may be a simple as recognizing the preponderance of evidence that Dead people tend not to fight back thus throughout history that seems to have been a favorite option.

    As Intel indicated though things are somewhat more complicated in societies where death of one's family/Tribe/guest requires a blood for blood action against the offender due to not only cultural but generally historic practice. That and the many other factors such as need to be able to focus on finding bad guys vs having to look everywhere since you never know who might have died let alone who might feel they need to make it right.

    Thus "eggshells"
    Any man can destroy that which is around him, The rare man is he who can find beauty even in the darkest hours

    Cogitationis poenam nemo patitur

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    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    So Andrew Exum says...
    The reason we do not drop compounds in Afghanistan has more to do with operational considerations than it does with some high-minded moral code or the laws of land warfare. Opponents of COIN doctrine who claim the U.S. Army has gone "soft" would best remember that. If dropping compounds helped us to advance the ball down the field in terms of mission success, we might be more tolerant of civilian casualties and "collateral damage." But the evidence suggests that killing civilians and destroying their property actually harms the mission more than it helps.
    Any student of Clausewitz (about the best COIN advice there is) will tell you that the problems associated with killing civilians are the political consequences of such actions. It's little to do with operational conduct, other than why would you kill people you don't need to kill?

    The negative consequence maybe the loss of political support within the target population. That is only negative if their support is integral to your strategy. The population can only share your political aim. They can't share your military aim. So talking about "operational considerations" in that context is simplistic and possibly misleading.

    Dropping the right compounds and killing the right people, will generally benefit your operational considerations! It's Core functions! It's how you defeat any enemy in any environment.

    Now, I am not A COIN OPPONENTS I'm an opponent of the "Nouveau COIN" which somehow wants to focus on tangential issues and to celebrate form over function., instead of the Elephant in the corner (carrying the AKM) - as far as I can tell "Nouveau COIN" is completely devoid of any reference to Core Functions.
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    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
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    Council Member rborum's Avatar
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    William - you noted "The population can only share your political aim. They can't share your military aim." That's a useful point, though distinguishing among them, I suppose can be a bit tricky.

    I understand the arguments for cultural sensitivity and against promiscuous killing. I am trying to understand, though, whether - and if so how - the "utility of force" (as Clausewitz puts it) is variable not only across conflicts, but also across different COIN campaigns as well.

    Stephen Biddle insightfully (I think) observes that the character of Maoist-type "wars of the people" may differ from conflicts where the counterinsurgency is driven by a third party nation. Rupert Smith describes many post-Cold War conflicts as "Wars amongst the people."

    Is the reason for disagreement about the proper role/degree/utility of force in Afghanistan, for example, because of differences in how we view the nature of the conflict? Differences in how we view the nature of the adversary? Differences in how we view our role as counterinsurgents? Some combination of the above?

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    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rborum View Post
    William - you noted "The population can only share your political aim. They can't share your military aim." That's a useful point, though distinguishing among them, I suppose can be a bit tricky.
    The political aim is the outcome as in who will be in authority over them. The French didn't worry too much about the 1,000's of French civilians killed by the Allies, because it meant a French Government.
    I understand the arguments for cultural sensitivity and against promiscuous killing. I am trying to understand, though, whether - and if so how - the "utility of force" (as Clausewitz puts it) is variable not only across conflicts, but also across different COIN campaigns as well.
    What's the difference between conflicts and COIN? None as far as I can tell.
    Stephen Biddle insightfully (I think) observes that the character of Maoist-type "wars of the people" may differ from conflicts where the counterinsurgency is driven by a third party nation. Rupert Smith describes many post-Cold War conflicts as "Wars amongst the people."
    Much as I like him personally, Rupert Smith is not on my reading list. Again, forget the "war amongst the people." That's just a condition, which may or may not be present. It's nothing to do with the end state.
    Is the reason for disagreement about the proper role/degree/utility of force in Afghanistan, for example, because of differences in how we view the nature of the conflict? Differences in how we view the nature of the adversary? Differences in how we view our role as counterinsurgents? Some combination of the above?
    In my opinion the disagreements are because we don't agree on how to apply military force to gain a political objective.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

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    Council Member rborum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    First of all we have discussed these things in great detail, a fact that does not necessarily lessen the value of looking at them again.

    But I will also say that Ralph Peter's use of language is not the same as analysis. He is given to seeking base instinct over thought and he writes and speaks to that effect.

    Tom
    Tom - Thanks for indulging me. I'm not necessarily looking to rehash old arguments, but rather to understand the source and reasons - among thoughtful and experienced people - for wide divergence of opinion on the nature/role/degree/utility of force in our current conflicts. I understand and concur that eloquence does not substitute for rigorous analysis. -RB

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