View Poll Results: Are all societies and cultures morally equal?

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  • Yes.

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Thread: Are all societies and cultures morally equal?

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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    ... it came out of an exercise in trying to get people (students) to come up with a definition of "absolute truth" and asking them how they grounded it empirically such that they could convince other students. The "God-given rights" is the worst, since there is no universal agreement on either "God" or "rights"; lots of religious wars, genocides and fights over both of them.
    As a non-anthropologist questioning an anthropologist on this issue, I feel kind of like a one-armed man stepping into a boxing match. But what the heck... I think you're blending two issues into one.

    In waging wars, the "God-given rights" argument is the case that one rules by divine right - and, by extension, has divine justification for the war that the king/pope orders to be waged. That is an exercise of political power, legitimized (or attempted to be legitimized) by an appeal to a religious justification. A study of the Crusades, for example, reveals more about politics than religious fervor. Political leaders attempt to justify their decision and rally the people to the cause after the decision is made to fight. There is no logical reasoning by which the king concludes that "our religion and theirs are incompatible - we must fight!" Rather, he concludes that "I want control over that port/peninsula/mountain pass/city/etc."

    Back in the day, people could be rallied with claims that they were defending the faith, when they were really mere instruments and fodder for a tyrant. Nowadays, with religion being less salient amongst western countries, we are rallied with patriotism, good vs bad, and being "pro-democracy." In non-western countries - particularly the mideast - it is still common for leaders to rally their people by appealing to religion, but is this really warfare over religion? When we invaded Iraq, Hussein attempted to claim that he was defending Islam. What did religion have to do with his degree of compliance with UN resolutions regarding inspection and verification that he dismantled his WMD program? He used religion, in vain, to rally his people to justify a political decision.

    So, I think it confuses the issue to say that wars are fought over religion. Instead, I would say that cultures tend to form along largely religious lines - since culture is heavily influenced by core values and beliefs, which are often derived from religion. Eventually those cultures political interests' diverge and then conflict. They clash due to politics. And then the political leaders fall back on a common religious identity in an attempt to rally support for the political cause. If there were no human tendency to seek non-worldly explanations about our existence, cultures would form along some line other than religion, and cultures would still clash.

  2. #2
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    Default There you go again, Marc

    muddying the water with facts. We don' need no stinkin' facts!!!! Our opinions will do just fine, thank you very much.

    Schmedlap, see above for how to deal with the darned ol' antropologist. Seriously, though, we also had "religious" conflict in N Ireland where the fight was really about political power and economic opportunity and social oppression. We also had the "religious" war in Bosnia between a bunch of folk who wrote their language in Cyrrillic and another bunch who wrote it in Roman; a bunch who celebrate Christmas on 25 Dec and a bunch who celbrate it 12 days later, and a buch who don't celebrate it at all! OBTW, thes bunches overlap

    Cheers

    JohnT

  3. #3
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John T. Fishel View Post
    muddying the water with facts. We don' need no stinkin' facts!!!! Our opinions will do just fine, thank you very much.

    JohnT

    Nomination for SWC Quote of the week

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    Ken has put us on a real slippery slope. What about the jihadists that sought and had a good death via suicide bombing and not retreating from a fire fight when they could have? How much 'religious' inspiration does that inspire and how could that be measured? I recall as a young teen seeing on tv the buddhist monks immolating themselves in viet nam - how much did that really reverberate? I don't think religion can be easily dismissed from the equation. Look at our own cultural dynamics that unfold in a theatre of war - the band of brotherhood mind-set that develops and can't readily be explained by behaviorism or traditional cultural values. All notions of the flag, democracy, mom and pop back home and apple pie all go out the window in the first fire fight and something quasi spiritual IMO takes its place.

  5. #5
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Nope -- THIS is the quote of the week:

    Quote Originally Posted by goesh View Post
    All notions of the flag, democracy, mom and pop back home and apple pie all go out the window in the first fire fight and something quasi spiritual IMO takes its place.
    Hands down -- all the rest is late night Dorm chatter.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by goesh View Post
    I don't think religion can be easily dismissed from the equation. Look at our own cultural dynamics that unfold in a theatre of war - the band of brotherhood mind-set that develops and can't readily be explained by behaviorism or traditional cultural values. All notions of the flag, democracy, mom and pop back home and apple pie all go out the window in the first fire fight and something quasi spiritual IMO takes its place.
    I think most religions advocate values consistent with this trait, but I don't think the trait is derived from one's faith. We are pack animals. Canine teeth.

  7. #7
    Council Member AmericanPride's Avatar
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    Schmedlap,

    I agree to a large extent, with the caveat that there are religious leaders who enter into politics or political movements with their religious ideal as the political aim. Often, these are radicals or revolutionaries who meet with little success, but sometimes they are relatively successful. Populism, with its appeal to the people's passions IMO is the main driving force of introducing religion into politics, and on some occasions as developments radicalize the followers, religious zeal trumpeting political pragmatism.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

  8. #8
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi Schmedlap,

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmedlap View Post
    As a non-anthropologist questioning an anthropologist on this issue, I feel kind of like a one-armed man stepping into a boxing match. But what the heck... I think you're blending two issues into one.
    Let me get back to you on this one in the morning.

    Cheers,

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  9. #9
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    Default Funny:

    Comparing the poll results to the discussion.

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